What is attracting California and west coast folks to DFW? (Dallas: foreclose, renters)

[KantLockeMeIn]

Originally Posted by DWong

This is why I love post like this. My wife teaching in TX moved to CA and got a $16,000 raise as compared to TX. To go from $45k to $61 was a nice bump. Look up per capita income, we are slightly higher in SoCal, but not by much - at leat not enough to compensate for the COL. I've said this many times, gov jobs ya you rake in decent living (it keeps up with COL) - but private industry, it's about the same. So Mr. Charles, TX is just slightly lower. And that's all 5 major counties here... SD/LA/OC/Riverside/San Bernard

16k raise, but how much does she pay on state income taxes now?

For a new teacher you can't beat Texas... the starting salaries are much higher than most areas, but the downside is that the scale doesn't slide too far up with experience.

[lh_newbie]

Originally Posted by DWong

Well alot of family that bout say 25-30 years ago are doing just fine now. That house that cost them low 100's or low 200's then is worth multimillions now. So when they retire they can go elsewhere or downgrade - totally up to them. It is spending power they have. (keep in mind they pay 1980 taxes on it too!)

That's great for people that bought 25-30 years ago, but does nothing for people starting out today. Hind sight is always 20-20.

Originally Posted by DWong

Yes it is an option here- I don't like when family visits and says they can't make it here, of course ya can -hard but it can be done.

I have to call you on this one. Saying "yes it is" doesn't miraculously make it so. Are you really saying that someone can make what my wife and I make, live a comparable home, save for an early retirement and still have money for vacations? In many of your own posts, you state that you have to rich to be able to afford CA. This appears to be in contradiction with what you're saying here.

[aceplace]

According to the Census Bureau, the median family income of LA county in 2004 was $43,518. The median Dallas county family income was $41,947. That's not much of a difference. Certainly not enough to be able to justify paying $400,000 for a shack or $800,000 for a World War II era two bedroom bungalow.

My reference is Dallas County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

No, I've been to all the towns you mentioned, and even if you are sensitized to the subtle differences that distinguish them, they really aren't all that different to an outsider. And yes, I've seen the Danish architecture in Solvang, very cute but hardly unique. When I say that I can drive to more and more interesting places, I mean drive to New Mexico, to New Orleans and the Gulf Coast, drive to St Louis or Chicago, drive to Monterey, Mexico, drive to Hot Springs Arkansas, drive to Memphis and Nashville, drive to the powder white beaches in Destin, Fla. In a couple of weeks, I'm driving to Washington DC. In fact, the central location of DFW in the continent makes it more accessible to more places than a city or region on the extreme southwestern tip of the continental USA.

Yes, the state parks in California are inferior... they're inadequately funded, more primitive, are less likely to have facilities that other states have... because California is in a budget crunch. And Texas also has some stunning National parks, such as Guadalupe, Big Bend, Padre Island, and other parks on the periphery such as Carlsbad, Hot Springs, etc.

Hills vs SoCal coast ranges? I don't think height matters all that much. People enjoy the Central Texas Hill country, or the North Texas Hill Country and its lakes, about as much as you may enjoy your coast ranges. Incidentally, a trip to the Grand Canyon from Texas is about as feasible as a trip to the Grand Canyon from San Diego.

The point of this is that Southern California's landscape and terrain are duplicatable elsewhere, or at least substitutable for things of equivalent value, and Texas does not have the continental isolation of Southern California.

Just fer grins, here are the median household incomes in SoCal counties

LA $43,518
Orange $58,605
San Diego $51,939
San Bernardino $43,179
Riverside $46,885

And for Texas

Dallas county $41,947
Tarrant $48,805
Collin $75,709
Denton $62,234

[DWong]

Originally Posted by lh_newbie

That's great for people that bought 25-30 years ago, but does nothing for people starting out today. Hind sight is always 20-20.

Absolutely is great for those who bought 20-30 years ago, same thing will happen 20-30 years from now too - our housing mirrors the stock market perfectly.

I have to call you on this one. Saying "yes it is" doesn't miraculously make it so. Are you really saying that someone can make what my wife and I make, live a comparable home, save for an early retirement and still have money for vacations? In many of your own posts, you state that you have to rich to be able to afford CA. This appears to be in contradiction with what you're saying here.

Oh sorry for the confusion. What you and your wife make here, would probably not get you a comparable home. But again, our wages (for some things are higher). Having one of out 30 people be a millionaire is saying something here isn't it? My wife and I travel nearly 10 weeks out of year, going everywhere 2-3 weeks spend in TX. So I guess we're doin ok? Not rich by any means and for SoCal - we're above median (which doesn't mean much though). I'll never say it's cheap, but hey it can happen here. think I mentioned it earlier, but people who move to Chi,Miami, NY, SF,Chicago don't expect the same comparable home - it's just fact. You like sq ft, TX is the place.

[aceplace]

DWong, when you say that SoCal wages are higher, how do you explain the census figures that I quoted? Or do you mean that wages are higher for you personally? Or that certain occupations, by virtue of strong unions, can jimmy their way to an abnormally high wage, at the expense of everyone else?

I think you can make the case that Dallas county's median household income is slightly lower than LA County's. But only by $125 per month, or so. Collin and Denton county median income is far higher than any Southern California county.

[DWong]

Originally Posted by aceplace

According to the Census Bureau, the median family income of LA county in 2004 was $43,518. The median Dallas county family income was $41,947. That's not much of a difference. Certainly not enough to be able to justify paying $400,000 for a shack or $800,000 for a World War II era two bedroom bungalow.

My reference is Dallas County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

I think I stated previously making $60k a year here will rent you a nice room in a high house, maybe a studio - much like many Metros.

Maybe this will work. Median is exactly what is it, median. We have the richest and the poorest here with a great divide in that middle. Read any article - CA has a low % of ownership. Because it is expensive. However, someone is buying those multi-million dollar homes and it's not the median people
I did mention we are on the brink of becoming a 3rd world country right? This would be a good sign of that.

No, I've been to all the towns you mentioned, and even if you are sensitized to the subtle differences that distinguish them, they really aren't all that different to an outsider. And yes, I've seen the Danish architecture in Solvang, very cute but hardly unique. When I say that I can drive to more and more interesting places, I mean drive to New Mexico, to New Orleans and the Gulf Coast, drive to St Louis or Chicago, drive to Monterey, Mexico, drive to Hot Springs Arkansas, drive to Memphis and Nashville, drive to the powder white beaches in Destin, Fla. In a couple of weeks, I'm driving to Washington DC. In fact, the central location of DFW in the continent makes it more accessible to more places than a city or region on the extreme southwestern tip of the continental USA.
Yes driving those distances of course you'll see alot. In SoCal alone you can see just about everything the country has (just not as much or as good), but venture to NoCal - changes again. Keep in mind, in staying with in state. But yes, DFW and IAH are hubs for flights being centrally located in the US. Just like LAX is the gateway to the east, DFW/IAH are the gateways to America.

Yes, the state parks in California are inferior... they're inadequately funded, more primitive, are less likely to have facilities that other states have... because California is in a budget crunch. And Texas also has some stunning National parks, such as Guadalupe, Big Bend, Padre Island, and other parks on the periphery such as Carlsbad, Hot Springs, etc.
facility wise I would probably have to agree. I've only been to a few parks in TX. Yes, seen Big Bend and Padre plenty of times - on par w/ some of our parks as well.

Hills vs SoCal coast ranges? I don't think height matters all that much. People enjoy the Central Texas Hill country, or the North Texas Hill Country and its lakes, about as much as may enjoy your coast ranges. Incidentally, a trip to the Grand Canyon from Texas is about as feasible as a trip to the Grand Canyon from San Diego.
REally? From SD/LA it's a 45 min flight to Vegas or a 5.5 hr drive to Grand Canyon.

The point of this is that Southern California's landscape and terrain are duplicatable elsewhere, or at least substitutable for things of equivalent value, and Texas does not have the continental isolation of Southern California.
yes, duplicated elsewhere but in what state has as much? Again, lot of family from TX visiting CA and that was before I met my wife....

Just fer grins, here are the median household incomes in SoCal counties

LA $43,518
Orange $58,605
San Diego $51,939
San Bernardino $43,179
Riverside $46,885

And for Texas

Dallas county $41,947
Tarrant $48,805
Collin $75,709
Denton $62,234

Reason being.... our only growing industry is service jobs. All low paying. TX however is growing in median jobs. Keep in mind Collin and Denton county combined barely come close to population of any SoCAl county. But yes, it is median, not average hence the 5% of population who can actually afford a home here (assuming 33% income to mortgage ratio)

Great post again!

[DWong]

Originally Posted by aceplace

DWong, when you say that SoCal wages are higher, how do you explain the census figures that I quoted? Or do you mean that wages are higher for you personally? Or that certain occupations, by virtue of strong unions, can jimmy their way to an abnormally high wage, at the expense of everyone else?

I think you can make the case that Dallas county's median household income is slightly lower than LA County's. But only by $125 per month, or so. Collin and Denton county median income is far higher than any Southern California county.

For gov jobs yes we are higher. Take a teacher from CA to TX w/ 20 years exp her salary will be $20-30k less. For me personally, we are doing ok for SoCAl... for Tx, we'd be in the middle. Oh ya our unions do make great deal for employees and bad deals for employers (hence the mass exodus of companies with good paying jobs here).

[aceplace]

Well, you're right about the Grand Canyon being closer to SD, but my DeLorme puts it 8 hours driving time from SD, whereas Dallas is 16 hours to GC. Still pretty accessible from DFW. A closer destination to DFW is Santa Fe and the New Mexico mountain country.

Glad you like Big Bend and Padre Island. You really should check out Guadalupe and its adjacent park Carlsbad Caverns, though. The Davis mountains state park is definitely worth a trip and the nearby Balmorhea State Park with its natural spring swimming pool is a pleasant diversion. In the Texas Panhandle, Palo Duro Canyon state Park is on a level with a Western National Park, and the Caprock Canyons State Park is actually pretty good and scenic. Texas has some pretty good state parks.

DWong, the median incomes are a real problem for Southern California. It doesn't matter if a California county is more populous than Collin county, its people suffer if they have to pay high prices with similar wages to Texas. Yes, there may be a small group of people with literally no limit to what they can spend on themselves, but even most millionaires have limits to their spending. If you're in a solid financial position in relation to your income and your expenses, you are fortunate.

If you like San Diego, you should stay there, definitely. Personally, I enjoyed what the city has to offer, but I prefer a larger city with a more diverse offering of things (and adventures). I moved from San Francisco to Dallas because DFW was big enough to replace what I had in SFO, and didn't have the things that annoyed me about SFO.

[_Charles_]

So Mr. Charles, TX is just slightly lower. And that's all 5 major counties here... SD/LA/OC/Riverside/San Bernard

I work in a highly specialised area of IT. The medium salary (and I am higher than the medium) for what I do in both SoCal and DFW is $93k a year. The $$$ goes further and affords a much higher standard of living in DFW.

And in general DFW is not lower per capita income wise then SoCal - check the stats - they are available all over the web.

[lh_newbie]

Originally Posted by DWong

Oh sorry for the confusion. What you and your wife make here, would probably not get you a comparable home. But again, our wages (for some things are higher). Having one of out 30 people be a millionaire is saying something here isn't it? My wife and I travel nearly 10 weeks out of year, going everywhere 2-3 weeks spend in TX. So I guess we're doin ok? Not rich by any means and for SoCal - we're above median (which doesn't mean much though). I'll never say it's cheap, but hey it can happen here. think I mentioned it earlier, but people who move to Chi,Miami, NY, SF,Chicago don't expect the same comparable home - it's just fact. You like sq ft, TX is the place.

Actually, even if you provided a reference (other than you quoting it) for the data, it would be irrelevant. Having millionaires in an area doesn't mean they MADE their millions there.

And the whole wages thing is lame. You quote the median incomes, which are about 4-5% higher. Normalize that data for income tax and sales tax and we're about even. You can't cherry pick one sector and then say your area makes more money. Median incomes show that it's within the margin of error - and doesn't include the state income tax factor.