Any opinions on Frisco? (Dallas, Arlington: for sale, rentals, HOA)

[sprkels]

Any opinions on livinf in Frisco? My husband is a contractor and has been working in Arlington for the last 2 years and commuting home here to Florida on the weekends. We are over it and are just pcking up and moving. From what I have read around the net is that Frisco is a nice area with a decent school disctict. We have a son in pre-school so we have a while before we hit high school.

So what do you think?

My husband also just mentioned West Elm. Opinions?

[socketz]

Frisco is really nice if you stay west of Preston, North of 121, east of Teel and South of 380.

Schools are great
Crime is really low
Access to shopping is incredible
Sense of community pride is excellent
Parks, Rec Centers, etc are being developed daily

http://www.friscotexas.gov/departmen...x.aspx?id=1272
http://message.ci.frisco.tx.us/discus/default.htm

Very upscale and nice...'cool' for lack of better terms.

I've checked with many and the Tollway to 380 will open in September 2007, so the insane traffic you see there now at rush hour will subside.

I don't need to tell you what happens to upscale areas built along the Tollway.

Again, you almost need to think like a pioneer to move out there to Frisco as the infrastucture is still building and will be for 5-7 more years.

Nonetheless, it will be money well spent if you invest.

[onrway2clt]

Socketz,

What is wrong with West of Preston? Is it that you feel the East side will appreciate more or is there something else going on?

Thanks

[Phyl]

What's with West of Preston etc? ALL of Frisco is nice. Expensive but nice.
It has grown like 200%! Traffic is something else but worth the drive if you work outside of Frisco. I didn't like it at first when I moved here but after a couple of years I've grown to really like it. Just don't be the snooty type because we're all friendly here --- whether you live 'West of the Moon or East of the Sun, or South of 121". Right people? Welcome!!

[Cami]

Originally Posted by Phyl

What's with West of Preston etc? ALL of Frisco is nice. Expensive but nice.
It has grown like 200%! Traffic is something else but worth the drive if you work outside of Frisco. I didn't like it at first when I moved here but after a couple of years I've grown to really like it. Just don't be the snooty type because we're all friendly here --- whether you live 'West of the Moon or East of the Sun, or South of 121". Right people? Welcome!!

I am interested in Frisco as well, however I am interested in an area called Shaddock Creek and I am not sure whether it is east or west of Preston. I know it is off of Teel Parkway and near a big stadium. Do you know much about this area? I am interested in finding out as much as I can about the area. What is your opinion about the middle and high schools in this area?
I am looking forward to coming back out there maybe next month

Thanks for your imput!

[socketz]

I said:

"Frisco is really nice if you stay west of Preston, North of 121, east of Teel and South of 380."

I like the area west of Preston because it was developed later once the land cost more, so the homes their tend to be more upscale (better builders).

Shaddock Creek is Khovnavian I believe....very nice area. Also take a look a little south in Pearson Farms....very nice community as well. Watch out here for the cost per sq/ft. It seems the new homes now cost alot more per sq/ft than the resales, which is something that used to be unheard of in Dallas.

Don't get me wrong, I like the entire area, but part of my plan involves selling/renting in a few years, so I need to be very picky because at the time of this note, there are 120 homes for sale alone on the 75034 side. That's more than Plano, which is larger. If you plan to sell in Frisco before the 5-7 years it takes to build out, you better make sure you buy a home that really stands out and one that you get at a good cost per sq/ft.

Note here that in 2008 there will be a community called Phillips Creek Ranch opening on Lebanon, west of where you'd turn onto Teel. This community is being developed by a builder from Michigan and is predicted to be another Stonebridge Ranch.

[Cami]

Originally Posted by socketz

I said:

"Frisco is really nice if you stay west of Preston, North of 121, east of Teel and South of 380."

I like the area west of Preston because it was developed later once the land cost more, so the homes their tend to be more upscale (better builders).

Shaddock Creek is Khovnavian I believe....very nice area. Also take a look a little south in Pearson Farms....very nice community as well. Watch out here for the cost per sq/ft. It seems the new homes now cost alot more per sq/ft than the resales, which is something that used to be unheard of in Dallas.

Don't get me wrong, I like the entire area, but part of my plan involves selling/renting in a few years, so I need to be very picky because at the time of this note, there are 120 homes for sale alone on the 75034 side. That's more than Plano, which is larger. If you plan to sell in Frisco before the 5-7 years it takes to build out, you better make sure you buy a home that really stands out and one that you get at a good cost per sq/ft.

Note here that in 2008 there will be a community called Phillips Creek Ranch opening on Lebanon, west of where you'd turn onto Teel. This community is being developed by a builder from Michigan and is predicted to be another Stonebridge Ranch.

Hi Socketz,

The builder for that community would be Drees and Sotherby. Those homes are hitting right around the area of 470k to 620k. However, I would not know Preston from too many streets there. When I was there several months ago, I only came through that area once and the Mc Kinney/Stonebridge Ranch area three or four times. I Left the Stonebridge area one day and headed out to Frisco. I traveled ( I believe) down Virginia Parkway going west to Teel and made a left turn. I believe I passed Pink Elementary School before I hit Teel. Anyway, that would be the area. I was on the MLS tonight and looked at homes for resale in the 75034 area to get an idea on the value of other homes in the areas. 75034 appears to cover a very large area. How far would this area be from the Stonebriar Mall and the Shops at Legacy in Plano? You mentioned in your reply, that another area is coming in 2008 that will be similar to Stonebridge. Would that area be located in Frisco and is this area suppose to have the same type of communities and so on like Stonebridge. Would you happen to know who the developer would be out of Michigan?

Thanks!

[socketz]

Be careful in 75034...

Remember, buying here in Dallas is all about resale % and the ability to actually sell your home among a sea of other resales.

1. Some of the homes to the South are zoned for Lewisville schools. And while Lewisville schools are probably fine, people that buy in Frisco prefer Frisco schools. Lewisville schools have a stigma and stigma is bad for resale, even if say you plan to send your kids to private school, or if you have no kids. Schools sell here.
2. Watch out for developements that have been plagued with foundation problems. The Fairways comes to mind. Big lots on the golf course that wont sell because everyone knows there have been foundation problems. Sure, they can be fixed with lifetime x-ferable warranties, but again the stigma will kill resale.
3. Be careful buying in nieghborhoods where there was say DR Horton is building 100k homes and Darling is building 400k homes. I know that in the Trails specifically, Darling cannot move their higher priced homes (even sold lots to Avery Edwards) because there are so many lower priced ones on the market in the Trails. Mixed builders works in CA, but in TX, there is too much to choose from so the buyer moves on to the next listing once they see your 400k home is on a street with 11 200k homes.
4. Careful buying fixer uppers. Folks here don't discount enough for lack of updating. Since appreciation is slow, it may be years before you'd recoup a 30-40k upgrade. Old fixtures, wallpaper, paint kill resale. I can show you 10 homes in 75034 that have sat since Summer that have great physical chars (yard, positioning.access), but horrendous decor (i.e. blue curtains, black grout, wallpaper). In CA, people buys these and rennovate, here, they sit. Move on to the next of your 120 listings you have to look at this weekend.
5. Watch out for your cost per sq/ft, work your Realtor and make them explain why you are paying x cost per sq/ft. Luxury homes typically fall into one range, while mid-lower end homes fall into another. The last thing you want is to buy a 600k home at $50 a sq/ft more than all the other luxury homes. This can happen if you go wild on the upgrades. I've seen about $10 per sq/ft per year appreciation in Frisco/West Plano, so make that your basis for a calculation. If you overbuy on cost per sq/ft, calculate how many years it will take to catch up.
6. Avoid all the poison pills: Master BDR Upstairs, East-West facing living spaces, front entry garages, 3Bdr vs. 4-5, sitting on a busy road (note they like to build their spec homes on these lots), etc.

The community you are looking in is excellent. The only thing I'd be concerned of is that you are looking to buy at the higher end in Frisco, which will have tons of nice homes on the market for many years to come (i.e. Philips Creek Ranch). It seems that these homes take much longer to move than say homes in the 275-375k range. Personally, if you have this kind of dough to spend, I'd probably look a little south and buy a resale in Stonebriar/Starwood - these communities are golden and already have the prestige factor build in, which will maintain resale/desirability. Or even more south in West Plano (Arbor Vista/Shoal Creek, King's Ridge, etc). Note that while West Plano has older homes, there are areas there where homes less than 400k sit on the market for less than 10 days. So there is a tradeoff. West Plano is also infinitely more conveinant than Frisco and just, if not more, as upscale, so people pay more for that. Don't let your realtor tell you otherwise, the Frisco commute is a bear and will be for years to come, even once the tollway goes through. All tradeoffs, but you can see where I'm going with this - people tell me I'm over thiking all this, but I as the buyer, I have control - once your the seller, everything changes.

[socketz]

Here's a few other things I jut thought of...

1. In the class of home your looking at, media/game rooms are expected. Since these 2 do not typically cost alot per sq/ft when building, they are excellent ways to lower your initial cost per sq/ft.
2. Check the zoning all around where you are buying.
Commercial/Agritcultural is the best. For commercial, you know nice ammenities will go in because it is SW Frisco. Walmarts will not pop up in this area because the demographic is wrong. For Agritcultural, your assured now that when the farmer sells the land, it will cost the developer a mint, so he wont build low end homes on it, only high-end patio homes because that's where the best margin is for him. If it is zoned residential, find out when it was bought. If purchased recently, your in good shape because of the same thing noted above, if purchased say more than 2 years ago, then the land could have been bought cheap and lower end homes (because they sell the fastest) may be what's slated for the land.
3. For new homes, make your Realtor work. Don't pay full price. Typically build jobs can be discounted 5% while specs can be discounted 10% or more. Recall that the margin they build into their upgrades is large, so don't let them tell you they have 30k in upgrades because it probably only cost them 12k. If you find a spec home that was purchased, then the buyer walked away at the end.....hit them really low because they need to move that thing because they have already conveyed the land out of the tract's deed with the bank and made it separate. This means they are paying a mortgage on that home and they don't like doing that. Make them drop their pants (figure of speech) and come equipped to negotiate with your best poker face.
4. Never tell anyone things like, "we need to buy a home before x date becaue we have to get out here by that time"....or "my husband is already here and we are dying to move out and join him"....or "we just love this home and know it is the one we want". I did this with a few I liked and the entire transaction changed tone, I blew it. Suddenly they were no longer interested in negotiating and started saying things like "new management took over, so I wont be able to give you the discount we talked about". For me, new luxury homes are as seductive to me as a glass of good Irish Whiskey is to a reforming alcoholic. Keep your emotions at bay and always make sure the new home salesman knows you are looking at at least 2-3 other places equally as attactive and that if you can't find something you like that you plan to rent for a while while you shop. Be vague when they ask you "what's your timeline". Sales 101 stuff that they are using to size you up and determine if you really are going to play hardball.
5. Watch out for rentals/investor properties. Grayhawk was ruined by investors and nice areas like Griffith Parc are close behind -> then Lonestar Ranch. Lakes of Legacy is another (Lewisville schools and high HOA also hurt this area). Where there are investors, there are neglected homes, lower rents, forclosures and again, a stigma. Your realtor can look in the MLS and tell you how many investors are in a certain area because most retals are posted there. This, combined with no infrastructure has made rents in Frisco dirt cheap - renting your home out if you decide to move back in a few years may not help you in Frisco. Folks rent in Plano (cost about 40% more to rent vs. Frisco) and buy in Frisco. The good thing for you is in the range you are looking, it just doesn't pencil out for investor/landlords, so you may be safe buying in the higer end.
6. If your time horizon is 5-7 years, then most of what I've told you can be taken with a grain of salt because that area will do well with regards to appreciation because the infrastructure will be close to done and the land developed.

[momof2dfw]

I'll add to these since there are some good points.

[quote=socketz;270068]
1. Lewisville schools are probably fine, people that buy in Frisco prefer Frisco schools. Lewisville schools have a stigma and stigma is bad for resale, even if say you plan to send your kids to private school, or if you have no kids. Schools sell here.
Yes, around the Dallas metroplex the school districts do carry stigma's. Some are valid others are not. You NEED to get your hands on the issue of the Dallas Morning News article this week about the Frisco ISD's new schools. There are something like 6 new schools opening up this fall and there are 100's of parents in a tizzy that their children are going to be forced to change schools since the boundries changed. I totally understand this and it is just the price that one pays when buying/living in an area that is growing so rapidly. Just a few years ago Frisco was a 1 elem, 1 jr high, 1 high school small farm town.

2. Watch out for developements that have been plagued with foundation problems. Sure, they can be fixed with lifetime x-ferable warranties, but again the stigma will kill resale.
True. There are some areas that do have more problems w/ foundations. Sadly in a lot of cases when it comes to new homes it is because the builder was in a hurry to build houses and get them sold. If you find a home though that you love and everything is right and it was fixed by a reputable company all should be fine. Sometimes you are better off having one that has already been fixed. But I'd only do this if it was in an area that was not plagued by problems.

3. Be careful buying in nieghborhoods where there was say DR Horton is building 100k homes and Darling is building 400k homes. I know that in the Trails specifically, Darling cannot move their higher priced homes (even sold lots to Avery Edwards) because there are so many lower priced ones on the market in the Trails. Mixed builders works in CA, but in TX,
SO TRUE!!! I guess that is one of our quirks here in the Dallas area. We do not care for a wide mix of price ranges to be mixed in together. This can REALLY hurt you when it comes to taxes and resale. Taxes, if you are in the high end you will probably be paying less than you would if you were in an area of more like homes. If you are in the low end the tax office is going to try and put your house on the same playing field as the more high end homes. Resale, that stigma thing.

4. Careful buying fixer uppers. Folks here don't discount enough for lack of updating. Since appreciation is slow, it may be years before you'd recoup a 30-40k upgrade. Old fixtures, wallpaper, paint kill resale. I can show you 10 homes in 75034 that have sat since Summer that have great physical chars, but horrendous decor. In CA, people buys these and rennovate, here, they sit. Move on to the next of your 120 listings you have to look at this weekend.
This is true. People are somewhat proud of their homes. That is fine but when it is in dire need of updating for some reason that thinking that they are in a highly desireable area comes into play and they just think everyone will die to buy their house and what is wrong with their decor anyway, LOL!!! LOTS for starters. I'm not really into mauve carpets . Now if you find one that just needs some minor changes to fit your decor/tastes and it is priced right, then that is fine. BTW, I have an aunt that has bought 3 homes in Plano and every one of them she gutted and totally updated before moving in. Sold all of them w/in 2 years of buying and made money off the deals. So it can be done.

6. Avoid all the poison pills: Master BDR Upstairs, East-West facing living spaces, front entry garages, 3Bdr vs. 4-5, sitting on a busy road (note they like to build their spec homes on these lots), etc.
True, we like our master bedrooms down. When it comes to resale if the master is up it knocks out one entire segment of buyers, the older buyers that do not want to go up and down stairs or may not be able to. In the higher end homes you must do at min. 4 bedrooms. Front entry garages are "okay" but more prefer rear entry, side entry or j-swings.

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