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Thread summary:

TEA accountability ratings: academically acceptable school districts, test scores

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Old 06-29-2008, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Fondren SW Yo
2,783 posts, read 6,658,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southern living View Post
to each his own indeed.
Im not asserting that cedar hill schools are better than nothern burbs...im saying they are comparable

SAT scores are positively correlated with wealth. the nothern burbs are more afluent hence the higher scores. As you said, most good students will perform well regardless of district.

Again, as per objective TEA data, the schools are comparable
I would make the argument that overall academic success also correlates with wealth, hence the higher scores across the board to be found in northern dallas area schools. Success breeds success. I don't really have a dog in this fight because my kid will be going to private religious school when the time comes, but my own experiences tell me that a kid in a school with a higher percentage of high achievers has a better chance of being a high achiever him/herself. If the southers dallas schools are indeed comparible in test scores/college attendance rates/college success rates than it sounds like there really isn't an argument.
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:30 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,700,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rb4browns View Post
I agree that test scores in and of themselves do not tell a complete story. With that said, it's my opinion that being surrounded by motivated, college bound students is a much better environment to be in even if it means being ranked #50 in your class that being surrounded by lower quality students who make it easier to get to that #1 ranking. The question is not if a good student can get a good education in a bad school, but rather what environment affords a students the best chance at the best possible education.
I agree that the environment affects the outcome to an extent... but not to the extent that everyone assumes. Judging by a lot of people's questions on this very forum, we should have a nation of geniuses in 10-15 years because everyone wants their child to go to the best school in XYZ city.

Personally I went to one of the best schools in my county in Virginia and had to compete with others and didn't make the top 10%. Because of it I wasn't allowed to start engineering classes right away, simply because the university used a formula that weighted class rank stronger than GPA or SAT scores. I had people in my dorm that weren't any smarter or harder working that were in the top 5% in their uncompetitive rural school that were able to start immediately.

When we looked for a school district for our child we looked into the obvious issues. We don't want to be in a district where drugs are a big problem, violence is a big problem, or one that didn't have a gifted program. I paid no attention to the test scores, but paid great attention to the opinions of parents in the area. The fact that there was a dress code for the district was a huge plus. Even though if we moved 2 miles away we could be in Plano ISD, we could care less.


Does the south Dallas area offer that type of environment compared to what the northern Dallas suburbs offer? I don't know for sure, but my gut tells me that a school that has a higher percentage of higher achieving students is the best bet. To each their own.[/quote]
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:34 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,700,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rb4browns View Post
I would make the argument that overall academic success also correlates with wealth, hence the higher scores across the board to be found in northern dallas area schools. Success breeds success. I don't really have a dog in this fight because my kid will be going to private religious school when the time comes, but my own experiences tell me that a kid in a school with a higher percentage of high achievers has a better chance of being a high achiever him/herself. If the southers dallas schools are indeed comparible in test scores/college attendance rates/college success rates than it sounds like there really isn't an argument.
I think you're looking past the obvious point here. If you live in a wealthy area, chances are better that you yourself are wealthy and successful. Not only did your child most likely inherit your genes to predispose them to also be intelligent and/or driven, but as parents you have higher expectations and the funding to ensure success.

So is it that the child is around other kids who have successful parents? Or is it their parents and their financial situation that affects the outcome?

I don't have it handy, but I did read research that found that if you took low performing students and placed them in top notch schools, it provided little academic improvement.

I can definitely see how a top performing student would have lower performance if the converse were applied, if there was an environment that discouraged learning... for instance gang violence at a school or a big drug problem, etc.
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Old 06-29-2008, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Fondren SW Yo
2,783 posts, read 6,658,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twojciac View Post
I think you're looking past the obvious point here. If you live in a wealthy area, chances are better that you yourself are wealthy and successful. Not only did your child most likely inherit your genes to predispose them to also be intelligent and/or driven, but as parents you have higher expectations and the funding to ensure success.

So is it that the child is around other kids who have successful parents? Or is it their parents and their financial situation that affects the outcome?

I don't have it handy, but I did read research that found that if you took low performing students and placed them in top notch schools, it provided little academic improvement.

I can definitely see how a top performing student would have lower performance if the converse were applied, if there was an environment that discouraged learning... for instance gang violence at a school or a big drug problem, etc.
No I get all of that, I'm not looking past it. Just the opposite. I'm assuming that most (not all) of the posters here have a certain level of education, motivation and income which would have them comfortably ensconced at some point on the middle class scale. Academic success is predicated on a number of things - student motivation, inherited genes, parental guidance and chosen peer group. Yes you can have a slacker at a great school and a great student at a slacker school. But my point remains the same - if you desire that your child have the strongest chance of acsdemic success, put him/her in an environment with the most students on that same path.

It's fair to argue that SAT and other tests are culturally/socially/economically biased. But let's get serious here. Life is culturally/socially/economically biased. One can fight against a system that isn't going to change, or one can learn how to play the game and win. I choose the latter and when it comes to choosing a school, again my advice is pick one where the majority of students (and families) feel the same to optimize chances of success.

This is usually where I call for vouchers and choice when it comes to schooling. And it's where I rail against the tyranny of the teachers unions/politicians/beauracrats who enslave the working classes in a trap of failed public schools, but that's off topic and for another forum .
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:18 PM
 
Location: The Big D
14,862 posts, read 42,736,331 times
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Some of what everyone has said is correct. While many of us can make fair realizations, comparisons and assumptions some are not so.

I for a second do not believe that just because a child comes from wealthy highly educated parents that they will be as well. I have seen WAY TOO MANY such kids drop out of college and some not even get thru jr. college that came from wealthy and well educated parents. Parents w/ jobs that were very prestigious and the kids had many connections to great jobs themselves IF they had completed college. These kids I've seen in these cases are now adults, married, kids of their own and have a MUCH lower col than their parents in many cases. Some don't and still try to live like their wealthy parents. In both scenario's I've known the parents had to help support them financially. These were kids that were in the "best schools" and the parents wanted them to succed. What I contribute to the downfall of this generation are parents that always gave the excuse, "I want my kids to have the things I did not." Or other lame excuses for not laying down the law with their kids while they were growing up when it came to homework, dating, curfew, getting into trouble, jobs, responsibilities, etc.

My husband and I both are college educated yet we were NOT in "the best" schools, did not have AP classes and had working class blue collar parents that did not have a college degree. What we DID have were parents that EXPECTED us to do well and do the best WE could and made us responsible for our actions.

This is where I have a HUGE problem w/ one of the southern Dallas County schools. The parents were upset and did not make their children do the required summer reading. When their kids were sent home the 1st day of school for NOT having done any of their REQUIRED summer reading or work the parents were up in arms. They were on tv and talking "trash talk". That is where I lost a lot of respect for them and that particular district. My child has summer REQUIRED reading. She LOVES to read but is NOT thrilled about the books she has to read as they are not "her type". Yet she knows she MUST read it. I will make sure she does as well and will be getting the book this week. My other child is in tutoring for the summer. She does not enjoy it at all but she KNOWS she has to do it for her own best interests. A rocket science parent it does not take to raise a child that is successful to the best of their OWN ability but a parent that MAKES their child responsible and is responsible themselves is what is NEEDED in order for a child to be a successful STUDENT! And for the district to get a better public rep.

As for being one that puts down another district or side of town.......... I think I know EXACTLY how it feels to be in one of the so-called "lesser" thought of cities and school districts. I'm in GARLAND! No one bothered to put Garland on the list of the SAT scores even though we did well being a HUGE school district w/ an avg of 1009. You never see anyone post on these forums they "heard Garland has an outstanding school system". I believe it does as it is one of the ONLY districts in the entire metroplex w/ TRUE "Gifted & Talented" education system being we have magnets for those kids. The entire school is set up for them and geared towards them. They are "normal" in their school and every program is geared towards them yet if they were in a regular school they would be "different".

Last edited by momof2dfw; 06-30-2008 at 12:37 PM..
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:24 PM
 
16,087 posts, read 41,050,017 times
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I agree with much of what mom says - I have seen so many rich spoiled kids rebel and fail. I think some do better when there is a good mix of students and there is more of a community feeling and traditions (like a small town).

There is a pernicious prejudice against any place that is not 'new' and 'north'. So I know where you are coming from...
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:34 PM
 
Location: The Big D
14,862 posts, read 42,736,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewooder View Post
I agree with much of what mom says - I have seen so many rich spoiled kids rebel and fail. I think some do better when there is a good mix of students and there is more of a community feeling and traditions (like a small town).

There is a pernicious prejudice against any place that is not 'new' and 'north'. So I know where you are coming from...
I tell my daughters that they NEED to know how to work w/ all kinds of people from every background. My husband employes people from all walks of life as well as customers from one end of the spectrum to the other. If you are going to be in ANY kind of management or working w/ the public, own a business, etc you are going to have to know how to work with people from every walk of life. If you grow up thinking your much higher above others just because they live in a lower end neighborhood, have a different color of skin, etc then you will NOT be a good leader.

I've told my kids the minute they start "expecting" anything more than their basic needs met is the second I'll jerk them up out of here and we will be living in a crappy apartment on the "bad side" of town. And I'll do it too.

There is one "rich kid" that I know of that is still working on his associate. His parents names are WELL known in the Dallas "high society". He has a job that does not require a college degree but he can go up further into the field w/ one. He is working on it but it is also a field he will NOT be making a killing in either. However, it is a field that he has every ounce of respect from me as I could not bear to do it as a mother and I've told him a million times if he needs ANYTHING or sees a need to let me know and I'll see what I can do. In fact there is a dire need all the time for people that CAN handle the job he has. He is one of the few though.
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Old 06-30-2008, 02:01 PM
 
Location: DFW
40,930 posts, read 48,938,221 times
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Quote:
perception is NOT reality
On an individual basis this is not true, my perception is my reality on how I see the world & life in general. It may not be right but it is my reality.
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Old 06-30-2008, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Lake Highlands (Dallas)
2,394 posts, read 8,575,403 times
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I never looked at TEA's site, but it says that my school district (RISD) is rated as "Recognized". Our local elementary (Merriman Park Elementary) is also "Recognized", while the Freshman Center and High School are rated as "Academically Acceptable".

Wow - lots of stats on the page. The High School is 35% african american, 17% hispanic and 43% white. Pretty cool to have a diverse group of students.
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Old 06-30-2008, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Lancaster, TX
1,636 posts, read 4,087,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momof2dfw View Post
This is where I have a HUGE problem w/ one of the southern Dallas County schools. The parents were upset and did not make their children do the required summer reading. When their kids were sent home the 1st day of school for NOT having done any of their REQUIRED summer reading or work the parents were up in arms. They were on tv and talking "trash talk". That is where I lost a lot of respect for them and that particular district. My child has summer REQUIRED reading. She LOVES to read but is NOT thrilled about the books she has to read as they are not "her type". Yet she knows she MUST read it. I will make sure she does as well and will be getting the book this week. My other child is in tutoring for the summer. She does not enjoy it at all but she KNOWS she has to do it for her own best interests. A rocket science parent it does not take to raise a child that is successful to the best of their OWN ability but a parent that MAKES their child responsible and is responsible themselves is what is NEEDED in order for a child to be a successful STUDENT! And for the district to get a better public rep.
Momof2dfw, that happened in Lancaster ISD. I remember seeing that story a few years ago and thinking the same thing. Those parents and their students knew that summer reading was required and that it was due on the first day of school. And worst of all, most of them weren't even new, but one's who surely heard about the assignment before school let out for the summer.

Before my brother enrolled at Lancaster High School last year, my mom called the district and got the assignment early, and he had it on the first day (even though new students were given an extended period to turn it in). District-wide, I only think that about 5% of the students didn't turn in the assignment in 2007-08, a significant decrease from previous years. While I am not a big fan of the superintendent, this program that he initiated has been successful and the district's reading test scores have continued to improve.

I know that the reputation of some of Lancaster's schools may not be the best, but they really aren't that bad. The majority of parents do care about their children receiving a good education and if a student wants to learn, follow the rules, and be successful - they will do well in Lancaster or anywhere else.
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