Dallas vs. Houston (Austin, McKinney, Center: smog, zoning, work)

[LOK222]

Dallas is probably the one of the top 3 cities in the US

Houston is probably in the bottom 3

[Guerilla]

Originally Posted by LOK222

Dallas is probably the one of the top 3 cities in the US

Houston is probably in the bottom 3

Top cities in what?

[momof2dfw]

Originally Posted by Guerilla

Houston hasn't had a hurricane since 1982. Rita was out to the right more in Louisiana.

And no where in Texas had flooding? Right. Tell that to the many hundreds of folks that got flooded out of their homes in and around the Houston area because of Hurricane Rita. Rita made landfall at Sabine Pass, Texas Not to mention the well thought out evacuation of the area.

"For the most part, Houston escaped major damage, apart from extensive loss of power. Some windows blew out of some downtown skyscrapers, and some trees and signals were down. [48] Thirty one deaths have been reported in Harris County, of which all of them were indirect (mostly related to the evacuation and cleanup). [49]

North of Houston, the 2.5-mile-wide Lake Livingston dam sustained substantial damage from powerful waves driven by 117 mph winds [50] and officials started an emergency release of water to lessen pressure on the dam. A number of news outlets reported on Sunday, September 25, 2005, that the discharge put lives at risk downstream and threatened a major bridge as well due to a sizable barge coming adrift. Repairs to the dam were expected to take months to complete. [51] After water levels were lowered and an inspection was conducted by national and local experts, the dam was declared stable late on Monday, September 26, 2005. [52]


Church in Beaumont with roof ripped off by Hurricane Rita.Communities in the "Golden Triangle" formed by Beaumont, Port Arthur, and Orange sustained enormous wind damage. Texas Governor Rick Perry declared a nine-county disaster area. In Beaumont an estimated 25% of the trees in the heavily wooded neighborhoods were uprooted. In Groves, the home of Texas' Pecan Festival, an equal number of the pecan trees were leveled. An enormous number of houses and businesses suffered extensive damage from wind and falling trees. The water treatment plant in Port Neches was heavily damaged. Some areas did not have power for more than six weeks. A mandatory evacuation had been issued before Rita's landfall. Those displaced by Rita were offered up to 60 days of hotel rooms, generators, chainsaws, and monetary assistance by FEMA. The "Golden Triangle" area was spared a more devastating storm surge by Rita's slight eastward turn just before landfall, which placed most of the coastal community to the left of the eye and in the storm's least-damaging quadrant. Rita's surge was contained by Port Arthur's extensive levee system. Bolivar Peninsula between Galveston and Sabine Pass experienced only a small storm surge, in contrast to areas east of Rita's center where sent a 20-foot surge struck Louisiana's unprotected towns."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Rita

[LOK222]

Originally Posted by Guerilla

Top cities in what?

as far as just straight up awesome cities

[Lakewooder]

When I lived in Houston, every time it rained it was a disaster.

[Guerilla]

Originally Posted by momof2dfw

And no where in Texas had flooding? Right. Tell that to the many hundreds of folks that got flooded out of their homes in and around the Houston area because of Hurricane Rita. Rita made landfall at Sabine Pass, Texas Not to mention the well thought out evacuation of the area.

"For the most part, Houston escaped major damage, apart from extensive loss of power. Some windows blew out of some downtown skyscrapers, and some trees and signals were down. [48] Thirty one deaths have been reported in Harris County, of which all of them were indirect (mostly related to the evacuation and cleanup). [49]

North of Houston, the 2.5-mile-wide Lake Livingston dam sustained substantial damage from powerful waves driven by 117 mph winds [50] and officials started an emergency release of water to lessen pressure on the dam. A number of news outlets reported on Sunday, September 25, 2005, that the discharge put lives at risk downstream and threatened a major bridge as well due to a sizable barge coming adrift. Repairs to the dam were expected to take months to complete. [51] After water levels were lowered and an inspection was conducted by national and local experts, the dam was declared stable late on Monday, September 26, 2005. [52]


Church in Beaumont with roof ripped off by Hurricane Rita.Communities in the "Golden Triangle" formed by Beaumont, Port Arthur, and Orange sustained enormous wind damage. Texas Governor Rick Perry declared a nine-county disaster area. In Beaumont an estimated 25% of the trees in the heavily wooded neighborhoods were uprooted. In Groves, the home of Texas' Pecan Festival, an equal number of the pecan trees were leveled. An enormous number of houses and businesses suffered extensive damage from wind and falling trees. The water treatment plant in Port Neches was heavily damaged. Some areas did not have power for more than six weeks. A mandatory evacuation had been issued before Rita's landfall. Those displaced by Rita were offered up to 60 days of hotel rooms, generators, chainsaws, and monetary assistance by FEMA. The "Golden Triangle" area was spared a more devastating storm surge by Rita's slight eastward turn just before landfall, which placed most of the coastal community to the left of the eye and in the storm's least-damaging quadrant. Rita's surge was contained by Port Arthur's extensive levee system. Bolivar Peninsula between Galveston and Sabine Pass experienced only a small storm surge, in contrast to areas east of Rita's center where sent a 20-foot surge struck Louisiana's unprotected towns."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Rita

Wow, all of those places, except for the Bolivar Peninsula are away from Houston. That is like saying it is flooding in Tyler, Texas, so Dallas must have bad flooding problems. I never said no where in Texas had flooding, just a major hurricane has not hit the Houston area since Alicia. Sabine Pass is also on the border, and Louisiana got the worst damage (especially Lake Charlers/Cameron).

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

When I lived in Houston, every time it rained it was a disaster.

Everytime there is a thunderstorm here in Dallas, prime time shows are always interrupted and sever weather alerts are on the top of the screens. Not to mention that it does flood a lot here, too.

Originally Posted by LOK222

as far as just straight up awesome cities

Oh. Dallas is in the bottom two in my list of American cities.

[aceplace]

No, Guerrila, I'll continue to disagree. A metro with 6 1/2 million people is definitely going to be a regional headquarters for its region, no doubt about it.

Houston's economy is not as a regional center, but as a national center for certain niche businesses... such as petro exploration, medical, port facilities, etc. It may have a local Walmart distribution center for the local Walmarts, but that does not mean much on a regional level.

The houston FAA offices report to the FAA regional headquarters in FW, the Houston INS offices report to the regional INS offices in Arlington, the Houston Fed Reserve bank is subordinate to the Dallas Fed, on and on...

The important determinant of urban strength is the MSA, not the CSA. The degree of commuting between San Jose and San Francisco is not large enough to create an integrated urban area, in the opinion of the Feds. Same with Washington-Baltimore. The transport and economic integration within DFW area creates synergy, and strengthens the area as the 4th largest.

Downtown Houston vs downtown Dallas? I'd probably dispute your definition of downtown Dallas, specifically where it ends. The Central Dallas business district is pretty extensive in terms of space, and it is tied together pretty well by DART rail.

Regional offices? Many studies have shown DFW to be the regional leader in warehousing and distribution in its region, and with a diversified economy that has a greater regional pull than Houston's less diversified industrial economy, which is niche national.

Yes, I've beento Houston. In my opinion, Dallas is superior due to its greater rail transport (45 miles now, another 25 by 2010) versus Houston's 7 1/2, and Dallas' pedestrian-oriented residential neighborhoods outside of the CBD. Houston is way behind Dallas in developing pedestrian urban residential.

Also, from what I can see, Houston is way underdeveloped in terms of tourism. Dallas-Ft Worth's numbers are way ahead of Houston's. DFW has many more visitor attractions, and seems to promote them better. Dallas has greater international recognition, due to the TV show in the 1980's, the Kennedy assassionation meme that continues to draw people to the city, and other things.

Dallas-Ft W is culturally superior. It has many more museums, especially downtown, more orchestras, more theatre perhaps, and it has better sports facilities. The AA Center is the most lavish and expensive arena in America, and the Jerryworld football stadium costing 1 billion dollars will outshine anything else.

[Tom Lennox 70]

Houston does have NASA going for it....but then thanks to Enron the stadium is now named after an orange juice company. As for Dallas, its a major regional center indeed and Dallas-Fort Worth airport is one of the most important hubs in the world and you can't say the same about the Houston area...just a neutral perspective

I heard Houston is loaded with illegal immigrants but don't know about Dallas in this regard.

[Guerilla]

You might have spent too much time in the suburbs if you have ever been to Houston.

Originally Posted by aceplace

No, Guerrila, I'll continue to disagree. A metro with 6 1/2 million people is definitely going to be a regional headquarters for its region, no doubt about it.

Houston's economy is not as a regional center, but as a national center for certain niche businesses... such as petro exploration, medical, port facilities, etc. It may have a local Walmart distribution center for the local Walmarts, but that does not mean much on a regional level.

How large a metro is matters, but not so much in this case. DFW is at 6 million, but Houston is at 5.6 million. Not big enough to make a difference.

The houston FAA offices report to the FAA regional headquarters in FW, the Houston INS offices report to the regional INS offices in Arlington, the Houston Fed Reserve bank is subordinate to the Dallas Fed, on and on...

The important determinant of urban strength is the MSA, not the CSA. The degree of commuting between San Jose and San Francisco is not large enough to create an integrated urban area, in the opinion of the Feds. Same with Washington-Baltimore. The transport and economic integration within DFW area creates synergy, and strengthens the area as the 4th largest.

Did you know that one boulevard separates the San Fran-Oakland MSA with the San Jose MSA? It is like having 360 separate Fort Worth and Dallas.

Downtown Houston vs downtown Dallas? I'd probably dispute your definition of downtown Dallas, specifically where it ends. The Central Dallas business district is pretty extensive in terms of space, and it is tied together pretty well by DART rail.

Regional offices? Many studies have shown DFW to be the regional leader in warehousing and distribution in its region, and with a diversified economy that has a greater regional pull than Houston's less diversified industrial economy, which is niche national.

Downtown Houston is way ahead of DT Dallas in office space and nightlife. Victory is sucking the life out of DT Dallas, and some companies are actually leaving DT Dallas for Victory. Instead of having Victory on the outskirts of DT, Houston is essentially building a Victory in its Downtown. It may not be under one developer, but it is comparable in size (Eastern DT Houston). I am sure by region you mean N. Texas, because Houston is leading the Southwest/Central. Go look at the Port of Houston website or even Wikipedia. Did you know that the POH is helping build that train port in southern Dallas County? The reason is because the POH is getting pretty crowded and needs some relief.

Yes, I've beento Houston. In my opinion, Dallas is superior due to its greater rail transport (45 miles now, another 25 by 2010) versus Houston's 7 1/2, and Dallas' pedestrian-oriented residential neighborhoods outside of the CBD. Houston is way behind Dallas in developing pedestrian urban residential.

Yet, you fail to mention Houston's rail expansion. Go here, for more information. Also, Houston has more bus/hov transportation, that blows Dallas out of the water. Houston is actually constructing more multi-family units closer to its core than Dallas is. Plus, there are a ton of projects going up adjacent to DT Houston. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Also, from what I can see, Houston is way underdeveloped in terms of tourism. Dallas-Ft Worth's numbers are way ahead of Houston's. DFW has many more visitor attractions, and seems to promote them better. Dallas has greater international recognition, due to the TV show in the 1980's, the Kennedy assassionation meme that continues to draw people to the city, and other things.

True, Dallas has greater recognition in the tourism world than Houston, but Houston is bigger on the business side. A reason for our many consular offices and energy capital status. Plus, having more international traffic at our major airport, despite having about 15 million less annual traffic.

Dallas-Ft W is culturally superior. It has many more museums, especially downtown, more orchestras, more theatre perhaps, and it has better sports facilities. The AA Center is the most lavish and expensive arena in America, and the Jerryworld football stadium costing 1 billion dollars will outshine anything else.

This is what really had me rolling. Houston has far more museums (fact). Did you know the Houston Museum of Natural Science is the second most visited museum in the country (excluding the Smithsonian's). Far more orchestra and theater. Houston is one of only five U.S. cities to have a permanent home for all five major arts (symphony, orchestra, etc.). Also, Houston is second only to NYC in the number theater seats.

Now, the AAC may be expensive, but it isn't the best. Jerryworld is real nice now, but will be matched once completed. Reliant in Houston was matched, Cardinals Stadium in Glendale was matched, etc. It is a cycle.

Nice post, though.

[LOK222]

DC is THE top city
Then prolly San Fran cuz it's beautiful
then NY
next is DALLAS!!! (but when factoring in realestate I say Dallas rises to THE TOP!

Then Chi-town
then Hot lanta

then about 10 more or so

then Maybe Houston

aside from some ports and oil, not much happenin plus it's a swamp in the summer..