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Old 09-02-2008, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
937 posts, read 2,897,236 times
Reputation: 320

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So why all the animosity towards SMU?
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Old 09-02-2008, 04:21 PM
 
16,087 posts, read 41,038,951 times
Reputation: 6374
These SMU law grads have done pretty well:

Law degrees increasingly attractive for CEO candidates | Employment News: Job News | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/classifieds/news/jobcenter/news/stories/090208dnbusceolaw.386fbf5.html - broken link)

David Dillon

SMU Law: 1976

Title: Chairman and chief executive, Kroger Co.

2008 Fortune 500 ranking: 26


Angela Braly

SMU Law: 1985

Title: President and chief executive, Wellpoint Inc.

2008 Fortune 500 ranking: 33


Edward Rust Jr.

SMU Law: 1975 (MBA from SMU in 1975)

Title: Chairman and chief executive, State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance Co.

2008 Fortune 500 ranking: 32
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:49 AM
 
6 posts, read 12,827 times
Reputation: 17
A university education and particularly and the school is at which the individual studied are over emphasized in the society that we are living in. I have worked with many new graduates from good engineering programs that believe that they have all the answers right out of school. This is never the case.

The big problem with most universities is that they are run by academics, many of whom became professors shortly after graduating. This practice allows the academics to become increasingly out of touch with the requirements of todays industry.
In contrast, many tech schools concentrate on staying current and avoid forcing student to take courses that are not related to their core discipline. This approach seems to help the student to question the norm and become more innovative.
This outlook is based solely on my experience with new grads and I have been fortunate enough to work with good people from both types of schools.
In terms of university ranking, I attended the University of Toronto (ranked 28th in the world) and Queen's University (ranked 194th in the world) and did not enjoy my experience at either school.

People who wish to attend university should concentrate on which school best suits them and not get hung up on arbitrary rankings (many of which are probably paid for by the school in question).
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:40 PM
 
2,908 posts, read 3,859,559 times
Reputation: 3166
Default Boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace View Post
Yes, some good things have been said about Rice, but the small size of the school, 2900 students, means it has very little impact on its community, or on the total college-attending population of Houston. There are likely many more students of comparable quality in Houston's other colleges, and they are learning the same material they would learn at Rice.

The question remains... why does Houston need Rice University? And of course... why does Dallas need a comparable college?

There are several ways to educate the most advanced students. One way would be to create a specialized university with programs oriented to their needs. Another way would be to create specialized advanced placement programs in the existing schools.

CMDallas, when you talk about "world class", what do you mean? What is the definition of "world class" in the context of a college?
Or, they could just listen to you belabor the same point ad naseum. For whatever the reason may be, you are more than a bit defensive when it comes to all things Dallas.
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:18 PM
 
2,231 posts, read 6,049,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theS5 View Post
Or, they could just listen to you belabor the same point ad naseum. For whatever the reason may be, you are more than a bit defensive when it comes to all things Dallas.
No, actually I am very critical of the prevailing attitude as to what consists of a "college education".

In many cases, this implies classes being taught by third-rate amateur teachers, usually graduate students who have no particular skills at improving the comprehension of people. Teaching is a profession in and of itself, and there is no reason to believe that a student of 17th century French literature has the professional skills to instruct others, just because he was able to study on his own and score well on a test of technical material, then applying for and gaining admission to a graduate program.

If I were paying thousands of dollars to someone to teach me a subject, I'd want someone professionally certified in his skills in the art of teaching itself.

As an example, the best explanation I ever heard as to why the speed of light never changes came not from some top-kick university grad student, or a top-kick professor, but from a junior college instructor. Someone who was paid to teach and explain.

If you all want to hear it, I'll explain it in a subsequent post. It's not too technical, and it makes absolute sense, even if you don't know anything about math or science.

Last edited by aceplace; 09-04-2008 at 01:34 PM..
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:41 PM
 
2,908 posts, read 3,859,559 times
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For what it is worth, I agree with the idea that a top notch education can be had at most state universities.
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:48 PM
 
Location: WESTIEST Plano, East Texas, Upstate NY
636 posts, read 1,910,899 times
Reputation: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace View Post
As an example, the best explanation I ever heard as to why the speed of light never changes came not from some top-kick university grad student, or a top-kick professor, but from a junior college instructor. Someone who was paid to teach and explain.

.
Ok, you've brought this up several times. I know this is a stupid question, but were his initials J.R.?

I just have to ask, because I had a similar experience with a particularly brilliant physics professor.
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:07 PM
 
2,231 posts, read 6,049,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tycobb2522 View Post
Ok, you've brought this up several times. I know this is a stupid question, but were his initials J.R.?

I just have to ask, because I had a similar experience with a particularly brilliant physics professor.
No, his surname is Epstein, and he taught at San Francisco Junior College. I didn't attend, but I read two of his books that presented intuitively simple views of otherwise complicated principles.

And yes, there are brilliant physicists that somehow also know how to communicate. I recall Richard Feynman explaining to a class in Brazil, in Rio De Janiero, where you could find polarized light in the classroom. He had the common touch. But it's a miracle to find a man like him when you pay $20,000 per year at an undergraduate university.

They say that Feynman liked people well enough to want to interact with them, to teach them. After he won the Nobel Prize, his impromptu lectures at coffee shops would be inundated with hordes of people who were attracted by his noteriety, too many for him. He would get around the mass attendance by scheduling a talk with a fictional Dr Mork, who would talk about something obscure. Maybe a handful of people would show up. Then Feynman walks in, explains that Dr Mork couldn't make it, that he was replacing him. And he was then able to give a talk with maximum interaction with a few people who really wanted to be there.

In many universities, someone walks into the classroom, and says "I am the brilliant professor Faustus. If you don't understand my lectures, perhaps you don't deserve to be in a selective college like this. Just study until your eyes fall out and maybe, just maybe, you'll get it.".

Last edited by aceplace; 09-04-2008 at 02:26 PM..
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:49 PM
 
16,087 posts, read 41,038,951 times
Reputation: 6374
Well you should have been there when I told Professor Frame that I didn't like the class finance book he authored.
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:49 PM
 
625 posts, read 1,949,828 times
Reputation: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace View Post
No, his surname is Epstein, and he taught at San Francisco Junior College. I didn't attend, but I read two of his books that presented intuitively simple views of otherwise complicated principles.

And yes, there are brilliant physicists that somehow also know how to communicate. I recall Richard Feynman explaining to a class in Brazil, in Rio De Janiero, where you could find polarized light in the classroom. He had the common touch. But it's a miracle to find a man like him when you pay $20,000 per year at an undergraduate university.

They say that Feynman liked people well enough to want to interact with them, to teach them. After he won the Nobel Prize, his impromptu lectures at coffee shops would be inundated with hordes of people who were attracted by his noteriety, too many for him. He would get around the mass attendance by scheduling a talk with a fictional Dr Mork, who would talk about something obscure. Maybe a handful of people would show up. Then Feynman walks in, explains that Dr Mork couldn't make it, that he was replacing him. And he was then able to give a talk with maximum interaction with a few people who really wanted to be there.

In many universities, someone walks into the classroom, and says "I am the brilliant professor Faustus. If you don't understand my lectures, perhaps you don't deserve to be in a selective college like this. Just study until your eyes fall out and maybe, just maybe, you'll get it.".
I try to get out, and then you suck me back in.....ugh.

1) You claim that many classes at selective colleges are taught solely by grad students. Where is the evidence of this? I was never, ever taught by a grad student. 50 classes, not a single grad student.

2) "It's a miracle to find a man like him when you're paying $20,000 a year to a university". Again, how do you know this? I had many, many professors that were amazing teachers. You can go ahead and discount my anecdotal evidence (even though after a full week, you have not posted a single verifiable fact on this thread), but then don't use yours.

3) The situation with the professor you just posted. You just made that up! That never happens in a college setting, and we were in fact, encouraged to discuss our professors with deans.

If you're going to post comments, back them up! Don't make up hypothetical situations and apply them to top universities. Come up with some facts. Otherwise, don't get upset when someone makes anecdotal evidence assertions about lower-tier institutions, like these: "Lower tier college professors are often burnt out b/c their students don't try as hard." "Lower tier students just want to party all the time."

4) Going back to your "the top 100 at UTA are equivalent to the top 100 at Harvard" comment: you still have not provided any evidence to counter my assertion. You tried to dismiss it by arguing a point of bias. You never sourced this bias, you just blow it off so you can continue on your rant. Nevermind that your bias doesn't take into account how the Rhodes scholarship actually works (students are picked based on regions in the country, not at a university level, or the fact that Stanford and Duke (neither of them northeastern schools) have an equal number of Rhodes scholars.

5) What got me back in this thread is that I just read that 17 Duke students got Fulbright scholarships this year. I went to google to see how many Fulbrights UTA students had, and well, I did find an interesting article about how a professor there won a Fulbright in 1989.

Your claims that "a top school does not provide a better education than a lower tier school" is in direct conflict with the "the top 100 students at UTA are equal to the top 100 students anywhere" claim. The evidence, the FACTS, don't support it. It can only be one or the other.
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