Living in Dallas without a car (Fort Worth, Arlington: real estate, hotel, house)

[aaronyoung777]

Originally Posted by aceplace

People in New York also have 32 mile commutes. So I guess New York is also way too big to be without a car.

NYC has a public transportation system as well, Dallas has a few buses.

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by aaronyoung777

NYC has a public transportation system as well, Dallas has a few buses.

Dallas has a public transportation system as well, NYC has a few buses.

[zatires]

Originally Posted by aceplace

Dallas has a public transportation system as well, NYC has a few buses.

have you ever been to NYC?

In NYC you can go to anywhere with public transport (and you don't have to walk blocks and blocks after you get off the PT system). Whereas in Dallas, you can not do that. You can go places, but you will end up walking as much as you are riding.

In NYC almost every street has a bus line. Try that in Dallas

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by zatires

have you ever been to NYC?

In NYC you can go to anywhere with public transport (and you don't have to walk blocks and blocks after you get off the PT system). Whereas in Dallas, you can not do that. You can go places, but you will end up walking as much as you are riding.

In NYC almost every street has a bus line. Try that in Dallas

Are you talking about the city or the metropolitan area? If we're talking about 32 mile commutes, we're really talking about the entire New York Metro area, not New York City.

Most of the New York-New Jersey metro is inaccessible without a car. Actually, much of New York city, in the outer borough areas and Staten Island, a car is a better choice. Truly, Manhattan, inner Brooklyn, inner Queens, those areas are pretty transit intensive, but Dallas' central core is also transit intensive. When you get out into the suburbs, where most of metro New York lives, people are definitely car-oriented. Manhattan is not metro New York.

Nobody is arguing that Uptown Dallas is as large and dense as Manhattan, but the local equivalent of Manhattan would be Uptown Dallas, not the DFW area, and not the City of Dallas.

In NYC almost every street has a bus line.

No, they do not. Most of the streets in New York City do not have bus lines. Many of the streets in Manhattan DO have bus lines.

[heyboi]

apples/oranges

[zatires]

Originally Posted by aceplace

Are you talking about the city or the metropolitan area? If we're talking about 32 mile commutes, we're really talking about the entire New York Metro area, not New York City.

Most of the New York-New Jersey metro is inaccessible without a car. Actually, much of New York city, in the outer borough areas and Staten Island, a car is a better choice. Truly, Manhattan, inner Brooklyn, inner Queens, those areas are pretty transit intensive, but Dallas' central core is also transit intensive. When you get out into the suburbs, where most of metro New York lives, people are definitely car-oriented. Manhattan is not metro New York.

Nobody is arguing that Uptown Dallas is as large and dense as Manhattan, but the local equivalent of Manhattan would be Uptown Dallas, not the DFW area, and not the City of Dallas.

No, they do not. Most of the streets in New York City do not have bus lines. Many of the streets in Manhattan DO have bus lines.

I think you do not know the boundaries of NYC.
NYC includes Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens and Staten Island. New York City does not include other boroughs. NYC has an area that is smaller than just the city of Dallas, but has a population much more than the city of Dallas.

For you to not get confused, (maybe should have your facts straight) we are comparing New York City to the City of Dallas. Not the metropolitan areas. In metropolitan DFW the public transport is almost nonexistent anyways.

So lets get our facts straight shall we? Comparing the public transport of both cities, so the non-knowing will actually learn something.

Dallas public transport is called DART (but we will only look at what they offer in the city of Dallas). Has the light rail along the 75 corridor, and the downtown area. Nothing in uptown, no subway. Has busses running around the city on major roads, but does not have access to everywhere in the city.

On the other hand, NYC has the largest subway system in the whole world! According to data 60% of NYC residents commute daily by using the public transport system. What is the number for Dallas? 5%
In Manhattan, a part of NYC (like Lakewood is part of Dallas) the car ownership rate is only 25%. So 75% of the residents of Manhattan do not own a car and use public transport. Try that in any area of Dallas. Even in Uptown area the car ownership will be excessively high.

About the busses. You said

Most of the streets in New York City do not have bus lines

and I laughed so hard, at the office people were asking what happened, when I showed your quote, those who know NYC started to laugh as well
Most of the streets in Manhattan have bus lines. Most of the streets in Queens, Bronx, Brooklyn has bus lines as well. There are more than 5000 buses in NYC and they carry over 2 million passangers each day. Try that in Dallas See the bus route map here; and see how wrong you were when you said most of the NYC streets do not have bus lines
Covers almost all of streets in Bronx
http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/busbx.pdf
Covers almost all of streets in Brooklyn
http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/busbkln.pdf
Covers majority of streets in Queens
http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/busqns.pdf
Covers majority of streets in Staten Island
http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/bussi.pdf

Trying to compare the public transport of NYC to Dallas is like comparing an elephant to an ant.

And comparing uptown Dallas to Manhattan?
Wahahahahahahahaha

[aceplace]

Nope, I don't see that most of the streets in Staten Island have bus lines. The vast majority do not have bus lines. Let's list some... Harbor, Bush, DeHart, Van Name, Lake, Granite... Staten Island neighborhoods such as Westerleigh, Castleton Corners, Todt Hill, they have a bus line on the periphery, but are basically busless within the neighborhood.

Look at Queens. Lindenwood, Woodhaven, Spring Creek... they are neighborhoods without interior bus lines.

Did you say that Uptown does not have a subway? What about CityPlace? Looks like a subway to me. Uptown is a similar neighborhood to parts of Manhattan. It has high rise office and residential buildings, dense concentrations of row houses, high density midrise apartments, shops on the ground levels. And a subway station.

Nobody is suggesting that metro DFW, at 6.5 million, is similar in size to metro New York, at 24 million, or that DFW has as strong a transit network. What is being claimed is that metro Dallas contains areas that are similar in terms of urban character, including the ability to live without a car.

[aceplace]

One way that Uptown is dissimilar to parts of Manhattan is its superior infrastructure. Uptown residential spaces are newer, more spacious, have more ancillary facilities... and most importantly, Uptown makes it possible for its residents to own and use a car. In Manhattan, people would like to drive, but the archaic design of the urban plan makes that impossible for all but a small minority.

[ctrres]

Originally Posted by aceplace

I've Most people who live in the New York or Los Angeles metropolitan areas drive,... .

RE NY: Between the continuous (and consistently heavy) traffic on bus, MTA rail, LIRR, PATH, NJ Transit, Metro North, and Hudson and Staten ferries, I'm not so sure about that.

Originally Posted by aceplace

In Manhattan, people would like to drive, but the archaic design of the urban plan makes that impossible for all but a small minority.

Manhattan Island is only roughly 75% of the size of DFW Airport. Central Park subtracts another 1.3 square miles from that. Subtract a few other smaller parks and every square inch of the balance of that is developed. The average height of that development is almost 5 stories (about 4.8). There are almost 700,000 taxi trips on an average weekday in Manhattan.

Where in the world would these potential drivers even begin to park their cars in Manhattan, much less want to drive them?

Originally Posted by aceplace

One way that Uptown is dissimilar to parts of Manhattan is its superior infrastructure... .

Well yes. As in any city.

Originally Posted by aceplace

...residential spaces are newer, more spacious, have more ancillary facilities... .

In comparison to what exactly? Just to "parts of Manhattan"? Or something like this: http://www.greenhomenyc.org/page/bld...building_id=57

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by ctrres

RE NY: Between the continuous (and consistently heavy) traffic on bus, MTA rail, LIRR, PATH, NJ Transit, Metro North, and Hudson and Staten ferries, I'm not so sure about that.

The traffic you mention constitutes only a fraction of the daily trips people make, trips that are suburban and auto-dependent. The vast majority of metro New York's population live in low-density suburbs where a car is the usual choice of transportation.