Wrongful Citations by Plano Police - Do you fight it or not? (Austin: appointed, lawyers)

[labor omnia vincit sxi]

I would like to poll or rather get a general feedback of what do you do when you are wrongly cited in Plano. Is it worth the trouble to fight it in the Plano Court system? How many do and win; and how many lose -what's the reason?

From feedback of my work colleagues, it mainly depends on background.
* If you're a US citizen, ~70% would try to fight it because they're innocent, some would weight the trouble it would take, others - just pay it.

* For professional migrants (regardless of background -> Rest of the World) - 98% (or 100%) would not fight it. Just pay it and shrug it off as "$hit happens". This includes taking the deal offered by the prosecutor, which is a lowered fine and a period of deferred judification, even though they were wrongly cited. I reiterate - You are wrongly cited yet you have to pay for it...mmm
Well, this guarantees $99 to Austin for processing fee and whatever left over as your bond $$.

From these rough poll, it seems that the police and the court system in Plano get a free $$$meal$$$ even though the officer made a mistake. Ever notice how cheery and accommodating the lady in the front is all the time, it helps to disarm and influence the pis$-off mood of those that are coming in to part with their hard earn $$, rightly or wrongly. And you leave feeling kinda cheerful, a burden lifted off from your chest as the $$ parts from you.

I am a victim of this error. I tried to get an attorney to defend me but their fee outweight the fine. On top of that nearly all the lawyers I spoke to told me "good luck" when I said that my case is being heard in the Plano Court. They said that Plano Courts are notorious for not dismissing cases even when it is in the wrong. Man what a money generating machinery for the State and City of Plano.

But I took my chance, prepared myself as best as I could and tried to fight my case today in a trial by jury. I read up as much "help in defending yourself in court" advices as I could and had numerous photographs to be used as defense evidence. But the prosecutor objected to its admission as evidence, everyone of it, including a print out of google map. The judge concurred with the guy. I was like what the heck?
Needless to say, I had no other cause of defense because the photographs would clearly exonerate me was inadmissible in court, and the jury returned a verdict of "guilty". Maybe it is the people of Plano in general that support the system, I don't know. I'm new to the area and am not qualified to pass judgement to the good folks of Plano (yet).

My case was a clear black and white contrast that the officer erred in giving me the ticket. He lied and was blind!!! BUT I'm made to pay to upkeep the luxurious lifestyle of the Plano Police, their numerous SUV vehicles and take this.... From Sept. 15 2008, the court fees would include $59 towards the officer's over-time in court appearance. I got a lucky break probably because the shift roster for my accuser was in my favour this time. But in the coming months, what is to stop an officer from swapping shifts so that the court date would fall on his off day, and claim the $$ from the defendant as overtime pay?

What do you say about the police training their radar guns on commuters during rush hours in the morning and evenings? Shooting Fish in the Barrel?
I can't imagine how fast above the posted speed limit can one rush in the peak hours anyway?
I also learnt the hard way that if ONE of your brake light is defective, that is $139 in the hole, even though you fixed it and show proof. Has the law changed recently? I've heard of stories in other parts that these kind of oversight is usually dismissed but not in Plano - it is termed as moving violation.


LOV

[jimithing78]

I think most people in Plano are just going to pay the fine and move on. Unfortunately since the city has a budget shortfall this year the cops have been out in force writing tickets. The judge is aware of the shortfall as well. Guess how his salary is paid?

My wife got one of these tickets. She was upset about it as you are. The bottom line, though, is if you were speeding you were breaking the law. I speed all the time and when I get a ticket I know it's not the officers fault I was speeding.

[cdelena]

I got a ticket I did not deserve but found fighting Plano can be a big mistake... they had a judge refuse a reschedule for me (because of a business trip) and then delayed the case themselves because the cop was on disciplinary suspension. In the end they forced a trial outside of my schedule, sent notices to the wrong address, and never backed down. I was finally charged with contempt of court, had to get an attorney and it cost me a lot of time and money.

I suggest just taking the safe driver class or asking for differed adjudication.

[ChristieP]

A long time ago, I got a ticket in Plano that was clearly an officer trying to wield power over a person in a helpless situation. I hired an attorney, and he successfully got it thrown out AND got a reprimand for the officer! The sad thing was that if I had just paid it and let it go on my record, it would have been a Class A Misdemeanor. I avoid Plano like the plague now specifically because of that incident...

[outlawturtle]

If you dont want a ticket, dont break the law...plain and simple. I have received a few tickets in my life, all of which I deserved whether I liked paying the fine or not. It all comes down to taking accountability for your own actions, which these days seems pretty scarce across the country, unfortunately.

I am tired of people complaining about police being out to get them or trying to raise funds for the city. Do you really think a partolman gives a crap about a budget shortfall? Some may, but many others enjoy their work and that is why they show up every day. Many complain about radar this and that...I guarantee you that if you or a loved one were in an accident caused by someone speeding or driving wrecklessly (during rush hour or not) you would immediately complain that the police department was not doing its job to slow people down. The police are damned if they do, damned if they dont.

No body likes getting pulled over or getting a ticket, I know that. But keep your car in working order and dont speed and you wont. I seriously doubt many officers are out there trying to give out tickets to people who dont deserve them just for fun...I promise you they have better stuff to do than that.

[Big G]

I need to jump in on this as well.

I've always found the Plano police to be friendly and effective. Any time I've had the need to call them, they have responded promptly.

Recently, I received a call out of the blue from a Plano patrolman. While investigating a smash-and-grab car break-in, he had come across some empty packages of mine from amazon.com that had been thrown away in a local park. I was able to assure him that those boxes ended up there legitimately, rather than being stolen off my doorstep. Still, I very much appreciated his proactive approach to a suspicious situation.

[KantLockeMeIn]

Originally Posted by outlawturtle

If you dont want a ticket, dont break the law...plain and simple. I have received a few tickets in my life, all of which I deserved whether I liked paying the fine or not. It all comes down to taking accountability for your own actions, which these days seems pretty scarce across the country, unfortunately.

I am tired of people complaining about police being out to get them or trying to raise funds for the city. Do you really think a partolman gives a crap about a budget shortfall? Some may, but many others enjoy their work and that is why they show up every day. Many complain about radar this and that...I guarantee you that if you or a loved one were in an accident caused by someone speeding or driving wrecklessly (during rush hour or not) you would immediately complain that the police department was not doing its job to slow people down. The police are damned if they do, damned if they dont.

No body likes getting pulled over or getting a ticket, I know that. But keep your car in working order and dont speed and you wont. I seriously doubt many officers are out there trying to give out tickets to people who dont deserve them just for fun...I promise you they have better stuff to do than that.

You know, in most situations you are right... but the one thing that I have found here is the inconsistency of speed limits in areas. No where have I ever been with speeds of 25, 30, 35, 40, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, and some with no rhyme or reason. There's one road where there's a posted speed limit sign of 55 on one side, and no posted sign on the other with an assumed speed limit of 45 mph. It jumps between speeds for no reason along the way, not like you're entering a school zone or residential zone or agricultural zone... but for no real reason. One second it's 45, the next it's 50, then down to 35, then up to 55... all within 4 miles or so.

Now back in Virginia where we moved from the law was that the speed limit had to be posted and if it wasn't the assumed speeds were 25 in a residential area, 35 in a business area, 45 on a 4 lane road in the suburbs, 55 on a highway or rural road, 65 on an interstate outside city limits. By looking at the surroundings you could instantly determine the speed limit, and if not there was a sign posted in most cases.

I say pick a speed on a road, assuming conditions don't change (rural, city, school area, etc) and stick with it.

[labor omnia vincit sxi]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for ownership and responsibilities. That's not my point. What I'm trying to get to is that IF it so happened that the officer mistakenly pull you over and cite you for something that you clearly did not commit, what do you do?

I "think" it is not easy to contest one's case in the Plano Municipal Court and get a verdict in favour of us, more so if we are representing ourselves, like I did. I opted a trial by Jury to try to even the playing field, and was disappointed that the jury ruled against me. Que Sera Sera.
My disappointment is mainly at the inadmissible evidence that I brought with me. Judge and prosecutors seems like they are cohorts.

So my purpose of starting a discussion on this topic is to
1) share my unfortunate experience of being wrongly cited and being found guilty by my elders of the city of Plano (the cop said that I was not wearing a seat-belt even though it was clearly on. I showed it to him when he was at my window but at trial he said I was still not wearing it when he was at my window.

2) make public knowledge that it is not at all easy to contest a case in the Plano Municipal Courts (whether one is right or wrong). Pleading out is almost the best route

3) raise the awareness that because it is easier to plead out our case, the court system makes very very ea$y money out of the people

If this system is alright by the citizens of Plano en Large, by all means then. We make our own bed. I just need to join in the rest of the residents here and toe the line.

As for the rest of the people who have no choice but pass through the city of Plano en route to work or what ever the reason, IF and When you get an appointment with the Municipal Court, the residence of Plano would like to thank you for your genero$ity

I supposed City of Plano was not voted to be the MOST AFFLUENT CITY in the USA 2008 for nothing huh?

Before I sign out, I've got to share this too....I saw a cop help change the tire for a lady the last weekend, after my kid's soccer game. That raised their value in my book.

LOV

[tycobb2522]

Originally Posted by outlawturtle

If you dont want a ticket, dont break the law...plain and simple. I have received a few tickets in my life, all of which I deserved whether I liked paying the fine or not. It all comes down to taking accountability for your own actions, which these days seems pretty scarce across the country, unfortunately.

I am tired of people complaining about police being out to get them or trying to raise funds for the city. Do you really think a partolman gives a crap about a budget shortfall? Some may, but many others enjoy their work and that is why they show up every day. Many complain about radar this and that...I guarantee you that if you or a loved one were in an accident caused by someone speeding or driving wrecklessly (during rush hour or not) you would immediately complain that the police department was not doing its job to slow people down. The police are damned if they do, damned if they dont.

No body likes getting pulled over or getting a ticket, I know that. But keep your car in working order and dont speed and you wont. I seriously doubt many officers are out there trying to give out tickets to people who dont deserve them just for fun...I promise you they have better stuff to do than that.

+1 for your post. Couldn't agree more; don't break the law, don't get a ticket. Now the OP may be right, in that they were wrongly ticketed. Yet they made two very lengthy posts, rambling on about everything to cops trying to make up for budget shortfalls to juries making bad decisions, yet not once were any specifics given about the wrongful accusations.

It is a natural tendency for a jury to side with a citizen if there is any gray area; many people are against heavy handed government, and tend to support the 'little guy' if there is any doubt. My guess is that there was little doubt.

As has been discussed in other threads, speed limits change depending on the type of street and the location. A speed limit in a nonresidential area on a four lane divided thoroughfare will be higher than the same type street with houses facing it. That's not unique to Plano either.

[aceplace]

Originally Posted by labor omnia vincit sxi

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for ownership and responsibilities. That's not my point. What I'm trying to get to is that IF it so happened that the officer mistakenly pull you over and cite you for something that you clearly did not commit, what do you do?

I "think" it is not easy to contest one's case in the Plano Municipal Court and get a verdict in favour of us, more so if we are representing ourselves, like I did. ..... Judge and prosecutors seems like they are cohorts.

If citizens who confront the system think the system is unjust, then it is unjust. In any representative democracy, people have to be satisfied that the laws are being applied fairly.

The money factor is something that is distorting justice. Plano city obviously has a monetary incentive to a) distort the justice system, and b) discourage people from complaining about it. Traffic tickets are an industry that has become vital toward the local budgets of municipalities such as Plano.

What if all the revenue from traffic tickets were diverted to the State of Texas? What if Plano did not collect even one penny in revenue? Would Plano then not have an incentive to keep traffic relatively safe?

Well, the City of Plano does not gain financially from solving rapes and murders, yet they still assign cops and detectives to such cases. The people of Plano are willing to fund this sort of police work through their local taxes. If there were no ticket revenue from dinging a motorist for doing 35 MPH in a 30 MPH zone, would the people of Plano still support taxes for it? If so, then they should have it, if not, then they don't think it's important and the cops should stop leaning on motorists for doing it.

Note that speed limits are not set based on any scientific evidence of danger. There is no science that says 35 MPH is a danger to anyone, or at least that it is an unacceptable level of risk. Speed limits are actually set based on the average speed of cars on the street, not on any computation of what constitutes a hazard to others. Essentially, the cops and the city are extorting money from people who don't fit a usual pattern, who are outside of the average curve. If the number of potential victims is small enough, that minimizes the public outrage, by limiting the probability of being ticketed, and allowing each citizen to believe he will be protected by the law of averages.