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As I said previously, the homes and lives of people in this area are no different than those in the other Dallas-area suburbs.
who are you trying to kid....
check out the per capita income and education levels from city date's own info...
it is certainly possible to live in any city mentioned in these posts and be free from crime or graduate with honors and go to college...but statistically there is hugh difference between Duncanville and Plano or Garland and Frisco...and in real -life senarios that translates into real differences in people's lives...
First of all, I am not trying to kid anyone. Why would I waste time doing that? That comment was in response to an earlier one in which someone referred to the entire area as "cheap." What I was trying to say is that you can live comfortably in a suburb south of Dallas just as you can in one north of Dallas. No place is perfect. You can find the exact same types of housing here as you can there, from small starter homes to mansions and everything in between. Dallas-Fort Worth is a huge metropolitan area with tons of suburbs and I agree with you that some of the cities are statistically "better off" than others.
Just because most of the area's homes aren't grossly overpriced or located in this decade's "it" suburb doesn't mean that this is a bad area to live in. It shouldn't be used, as it has been, to make broad generalizations about such a large area or as an excuse by some people who don't live here and are ignorant of the facts on the ground to look down at the people who have chosen to live here.
As I said previously, the homes and lives of people in this area are no different than those in the other Dallas-area suburbs.
who are you trying to kid....
check out the per capita income and education levels from city date's own info...
it is certainly possible to live in any city mentioned in these posts and be free from crime or graduate with honors and go to college...but statistically there is hugh difference between Duncanville and Plano or Garland and Frisco...and in real -life senarios that translates into real differences in people's lives...
comparing duncanville to plano is like comparing apples to oranges to make your point. just like it would be unfair to compare plano to say highland park.
according to the stats by money magazine (2008), desoto and cedar hill are more comparable to northern cities such as carrolton and farmers branch in terms of median income. What you might find surprising is that there are pockets of affluence in the southern cities that rival any you will find in the north, though they are smaller.
so, as a region, the north is more affluent. but if you look at individual cities, you will find that many of them are no different than southern burbs. so no, the homes and lives of people in the southern burbs are not that different from those in other burbs
Last edited by southern living; 02-01-2009 at 07:16 AM..
I think the issue is many people on this forum think that if you don't live in the northern burbs your settling for less. Somehow your accepting crime, less desirable schools, and in some ways second class citizenship. This tone comes thru everyday. I can't count how many times a person has posted they need a place to live and Plano, Allen, Frisco and McKinney is suggested as the only place they should look. This is done despite the posters saying his job as at the VA hospital, Arlington or the southern portion of Dallas. It is suggested that if they don't move north they will be subjecting there kids to crime and substandard schools. The majority of these folks are not even Dallas natives but they attempt to come across as experts. It's a bias that I have gotten tired of hearing. There are thousands of folks who live outside the northern burb utopia and are very happy.
Drive or walk through each of the areas as judge for yourself where you want to live.
Exactly. Even if you plan to stay there forever, you need to look at resale value.
Personally, I've found that a 3000+ sqft house for under $150k is likely either cheaply built, a foreclosure, or poorly maintained/falling apart. In your price range, stick to under 2000 sqft and you'll likely get a MUCH better house that will not require extensive maintenance or be in an area with higher crime and/or poor schools.
Mesquite, Duncanville and DeSoto do have nice neighborhoods. You'll be further away from upscale retail, restaurants, and gourmet grocery stores, but if those things aren't important to you, then go for it.
I was anti-south of Dallas until I got a job in downtown Dallas. Most of my co-workers live south of Dallas. I have learned a lot from them. They are all over the place south - Pleasant Grove, Ennis, Waxahachie, DeSoto, Cedar Hill, Glenn Heights, Midlothian, Kessler Park, Ovilla, Ferris, Red Oak.
They live south because it's a lot cheaper, because they don't want to live in a Keeping Up With The Joneses mentality, the commute is shorter to downtown, it's prettier, they can have a lot of space between houses and there is less traffic overall. They are more country folk, small town people. Nice people.
They will also tell you the negatives. They will tell you the schools are not very good and that their kids struggle when they go on to college. They will tell you having a baby in high school is the norm. They will tell you there is no point in being in the district's gifted and talented program because the teachers are horrible and it's just more homework. One will tell you the police came to his door to strongly encourage him to find a private school for his daughter before she is killed on the street for being white. They will tell you they use private school or homeschool.
They will tell you they drive miles and miles to the one option they have for a grocery store, and it's a Wal-mart. They will tell you there is limited other retail options. They will tell you all of their appliances were stolen out of their newly built house hours before they moved in. They will tell you the only option for a decent paying job is in downtown Dallas. It's the only major employment center in the area.
Overall, though, they like it and are happy. Those without kids in public schools are more content than those with kids in the schools. To me, that's the key - the schools - most, not all. But the schools south of Dallas have a higher percentage of low income kids and schools with higher percentage of low income kids don't put out the high TAKS scores, don't get the Exemplary ranking, don't have the National Merit Semi Finalists, don't get the positive spin, etc.
Check out this post I did on percent of low income kids and the districts overall TAKS average (all TAKS scores averaged together - highest/best grade is 100) School districts - Low income and TAKS averages
I was anti-south of Dallas until I got a job in downtown Dallas. Most of my co-workers live south of Dallas. I have learned a lot from them. They are all over the place south - Pleasant Grove, Ennis, Waxahachie, DeSoto, Cedar Hill, Glenn Heights, Midlothian, Kessler Park, Ovilla, Ferris, Red Oak.
They live south because it's a lot cheaper, because they don't want to live in a Keeping Up With The Joneses mentality, the commute is shorter to downtown, it's prettier, they can have a lot of space between houses and there is less traffic overall. They are more country folk, small town people. Nice people.
They will also tell you the negatives. They will tell you the schools are not very good and that their kids struggle when they go on to college. They will tell you having a baby in high school is the norm. They will tell you there is no point in being in the district's gifted and talented program because the teachers are horrible and it's just more homework. One will tell you the police came to his door to strongly encourage him to find a private school for his daughter before she is killed on the street for being white. They will tell you they use private school or homeschool.
They will tell you they drive miles and miles to the one option they have for a grocery store, and it's a Wal-mart. They will tell you there is limited other retail options. They will tell you all of their appliances were stolen out of their newly built house hours before they moved in. They will tell you the only option for a decent paying job is in downtown Dallas. It's the only major employment center in the area.
Overall, though, they like it and are happy. Those without kids in public schools are more content than those with kids in the schools. To me, that's the key - the schools - most, not all. But the schools south of Dallas have a higher percentage of low income kids and schools with higher percentage of low income kids don't put out the high TAKS scores, don't get the Exemplary ranking, don't have the National Merit Semi Finalists, don't get the positive spin, etc.
Check out this post I did on percent of low income kids and the districts overall TAKS average (all TAKS scores averaged together - highest/best grade is 100) School districts - Low income and TAKS averages
some of what you say is true, the rest is nonsense. again, you make generalizations which make your statement false if not misleading. it might be true in ovilla that you have to drive some ways to shop (it has a rural feel which appeals to some people) but this is not true for say, waxahachie which has a walmart, brookshires, and HEB all in one street. its certainly not true for cedar hill which is shopping central for the southern burbs.
true that pleasant grove had the highest teen preg rates but again this is not true for the rest of the region. would i be right to claim that northern cities have drug problems because of the drug problems that existed in plano? ofcourse not.
My caucasian son goes to cedar hill schools and has never once had his life threatened (this is a ridiculous claim in my opinion). Most of his friends are AA, some caucasian. Cedar hill has a 40% black, 40% white pop. it is the only burb i believe that can claim this kind of balance.
My son goes to cedar hill schools and is excelling (97th percentile on norm referenced ITBS test). This would not happen with "bad" teachers. We chose to home school our daughter and the cheaper lifestyle has allowed us to do this and still live in a safe, neat, neighborhood.
again, most of what you state is stereotypical gut reaction nonsense from northerners. The southern burbs continue to grow despite these erronous gibberish
In the past 8 years, the population of southern burbs has increased, the median income has risen, and the people moving in have higher education (as opposed to those fleeing). The median income in Cedar hill is 80K. This is comparable to many cities in the North. This is middle America...unless you are some kind of elitist
To put it simply, those neighborhoods are not that nice. Go for a drive down there, you'll see.
or you can look on google maps, not very pretty. I am surprised that south Dallas hasn't been bought out by the CBD (central business district) and converted to condos, office space or simply, another highland park. Seems like there would be tons of money to be made to plow down south dallas and convert it to more family friendly community. I think over time South Dallas will make a turn for the better especially if energy prices go up. There will simply be too much demand for even the bad area of south dallas that it will drive the poor out. I am talking 5$/gallon for gas adjusted for inflation.
some of what you say is true, the rest is nonsense. again, you make generalizations which make your statement false if not misleading. it might be true in ovilla that you have to drive some ways to shop (it has a rural feel which appeals to some people) but this is not true for say, waxahachie which has a walmart, brookshires, and HEB all in one street. its certainly not true for cedar hill which is shopping central for the southern burbs.
true that pleasant grove had the highest teen preg rates but again this is not true for the rest of the region. would i be right to claim that northern cities have drug problems because of the drug problems that existed in plano? ofcourse not.
My caucasian son goes to cedar hill schools and has never once had his life threatened (this is a ridiculous claim in my opinion). Most of his friends are AA, some caucasian. Cedar hill has a 40% black, 40% white pop. it is the only burb i believe that can claim this kind of balance.
My son goes to cedar hill schools and is excelling (97th percentile on norm referenced ITBS test). This would not happen with "bad" teachers. We chose to home school our daughter and the cheaper lifestyle has allowed us to do this and still live in a safe, neat, neighborhood.
again, most of what you state is stereotypical gut reaction nonsense from northerners. The southern burbs continue to grow despite these erronous gibberish
In the past 8 years, the population of southern burbs has increased, the median income has risen, and the people moving in have higher education (as opposed to those fleeing). The median income in Cedar hill is 80K. This is comparable to many cities in the North. This is middle America...unless you are some kind of elitist
I agree.
With regards to grocery store options, you hit the nail on the head. When I lived in DeSoto, my family had the choice of two (and for a time three) stores to choose from, not counting Wal-Mart. Even though we are lobbying for another grocery store in Lancaster, we still have a Minyards in the city and a Kroger store located on the DeSoto side of I-35 that are only a short distance from my home. As much as I don't like to use Wal-Mart for grocery shopping, it is still there as yet another option to choose from. The true lack of grocery stores is most prevalent in some of Dallas' southern sector neighborhoods. I have an aunt who lives in the Highland Hills area and she usually will drive to DeSoto to shop. They don't even have a Wal-Mart.
In the time that I attended DeSoto schools, the demographics changed, but race and racial tensions were not a problem. I had friends of all different backgrounds, was never treated as second-class or called a racial slur, and can't remember a single event occurring in the community that provoked significant outrage (no John Wylie Price-led "No Justice, No Peace" marches).
Based on my experiences in DeSoto and my brother's experiences in Lancaster, it is not like ten or twenty percent of the girls were/are running around the halls pregnant. I'm sure you can find pregnant girls in schools across the Metroplex, regardless of location or class. As long as teenagers continue to have sex, there will be teen pregnancies.
Regardless of standardized test scores, which usually favor less diverse and/or wealthy districts with only a few exceptions, it is possible to get a good education in the southern suburbs. The formula for success is no different than in any other area. A motivated student with parents (mentors, other family members, etc.) who are willing to go the extra mile to ensure that he/she stays on the right track and teachers that treat their job as a duty to educate the next generation will always have a leg-up on the competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killer2021
or you can look on google maps, not very pretty. I am surprised that south Dallas hasn't been bought out by the CBD (central business district) and converted to condos, office space or simply, another highland park. Seems like there would be tons of money to be made to plow down south dallas and convert it to more family friendly community. I think over time South Dallas will make a turn for the better especially if energy prices go up. There will simply be too much demand for even the bad area of south dallas that it will drive the poor out. I am talking 5$/gallon for gas adjusted for inflation.
Again, the OP was asking about the suburbs south and east of Dallas, not the "South Dallas" neighborhood immediately south of Downtown. There is a huge difference between the two areas.
If some of the comments on this thread have taught me anything, it is that I need to take a day and go around my community snapping photos of different neighborhoods and areas throughout the city because it is obvious that a lot of people seem to be unfamiliar with Lancaster and the other southern suburbs. There's a wide variety of homes in nice neighborhoods here.
In the meantime, here are a few links from Google StreetView highlighting a few random areas in the southern suburbs. These images speak louder than a two or three word generalization.
LANCASTER Augusta St. – Millbrook, a 1980s master-planned Community Creekwood Dr. – Tree-lined, older neighborhood near Ten Mile Creek Rawlins Dr. – Pleasant Run Estates subdivision Westover Dr. – Brookhaven Estates, a middle class neighborhood of homes & duplexes
that Augusta St link you posted looks like a nice place in Lancaster from the pictures. But the gas station/covenient store on the corner of Houston School Road and Pleasant run rd right next to that neighborhood is REALLY ghetto. I actually stopped there once for gas and it is your typical bars on the windows dont go there at night type of place.
The fact is the northern suburbs are the more desirable place to live. The prices are lower in the southern suburbs for a reason. Yeah the southern suburbs have just as nice houses for less money. But what you paying for in the northern suburbs is the location of the houses. Brick and mortar costs the same all over the metro plex but the land the houses sit on is much different.
Last edited by DaveG99; 02-02-2009 at 08:56 AM..
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