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Old 03-16-2009, 03:40 PM
 
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With all the hoop-la about how great TX schools are, why the low SAT scores? Anyone w/ a good answer? My whole family are employed at elementary levels schools throughout texas and I see them work very hard and do quite well. But do all the good teachers fall off the map in High school or what? This is the only national test given to students so it is the best judgement of how a state does. No state test are alike or graded the same. Any idea what happens to the kids in high school?

SAT Scores - Google Docs

Texas SAT scores fall further behind national averages | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/082708dntextaksscores.145fbde2.html - broken link)
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Old 03-16-2009, 04:54 PM
 
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the number of students from ESL households and low income households in TX is larger than some school populations in some states--THAT is one reason why our SAT scores are lower...
in my district which had large # of ESL and low income students we ENCOURAGE ALL our students to take the SAT tests--some districts don't...they don't want bad stats...

and to be honest in some states the median reading age is higher and the math scores are better--but many of those states have very homogeneous student populations from stable homes and with little moving around--

demographics have a great deal to do with why scores vary---money spent by the state and local isds toward education varies--as a state TX ranks pretty low on how much the state contributes to the per capita education budget...
curriculum choices by students vary--until recently TX did not require 4 yrs of math/science--other states have for long time...don't you think math/science scores would be higher there
this is not like shopping for a carton of eggs--where there are multiple brands to choose from but the same count inside...
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
5,196 posts, read 4,994,473 times
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Loves2read, I agree with everything you said, but there is also a much simpler answer. That chart is next to useless for this purpose. Take another look at it and note the participation rate. Sure you can be #1 when only 3% of students are taking the test! Statistics 101. The reason I took a closer look was Missouri's rank didn't make sense to me. My mother-in-law taught in MO until her retirement several years back, my husband graduated from there. He never took the SAT because MO state schools didn't require it then (don't know about now), kids who were college bound for state schools (the vast majority in his town) took the ACT. I'm thinking those top scoring states with those teeny-tiny participation rates take the ACT for their state schools and the kids who end up taking the SAT are already top students who are looking at out of state schools and private colleges.
With such a variation in participation rates, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Now if someone feels compelled to create a chart (not me!) comparing scores from states with similar participation rates, I'd love to see it. My guess is Texas would be closer to the middle. Still not stellar, but not 47th either.
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:13 PM
 
669 posts, read 1,055,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
the number of students from ESL households and low income households in TX is larger than some school populations in some states--THAT is one reason why our SAT scores are lower...
in my district which had large # of ESL and low income students we ENCOURAGE ALL our students to take the SAT tests--some districts don't...they don't want bad stats...

and to be honest in some states the median reading age is higher and the math scores are better--but many of those states have very homogeneous student populations from stable homes and with little moving around--

demographics have a great deal to do with why scores vary---money spent by the state and local isds toward education varies--as a state TX ranks pretty low on how much the state contributes to the per capita education budget...
curriculum choices by students vary--until recently TX did not require 4 yrs of math/science--other states have for long time...don't you think math/science scores would be higher there
this is not like shopping for a carton of eggs--where there are multiple brands to choose from but the same count inside...
very good points. HOwever, states like Florida, CA, AZ and NV have much of the same demographics and influx of students coming in and out of the area, yet still score higher?

One of my theories is that excellent math, science and reading teachers in TX do not get paid fairly. If a math science grad out of school can make 60k+ plus bonuses etc to work @ any of the large Texas industries, or work 25 years just to tap into a salary like that, he's most likely to go the industry route. YOU WILL not get the best teachers as long as you pay them 40k for 15 years of work... you just won't. In TX unlike other states, you have the option of a high paying job. And I think they are gravitating more towards the private field than education. Teaching math/science and writing effectively is probably the hardest thing to do in all of education. Because you deal w/ a random mix of students of all levels and have to get them to learn and meet some goal. Unlike in private schools or college you already have high achievers or select students... Almost any teacher will do well.
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:27 PM
 
14,625 posts, read 27,678,561 times
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where do you think the MONEY to pay teachers that level is coming from...
get real...
and frankly I know some great teachers and some terribly unmotivated students--as long as students think that education is painless, low-energy, consumption sport--SAT scores and everything else about education is not going anywhere...
forgot to mention probably significant reason why TX does have large numbers of students who take the SAT
the emphasis on high school sports--football and basketball in particular...
and students desire to get sports scholarship and be professional athletes....
they have to score in a certain percentile to get into Division I schools...DivI usually better chance for pro sport offer...
that is one reason why so many students with mediocre abilities are taking the SAT...
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Funky Town, Texas
3,596 posts, read 4,272,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXNGL View Post
Loves2read, I agree with everything you said, but there is also a much simpler answer. That chart is next to useless for this purpose. Take another look at it and note the participation rate. Sure you can be #1 when only 3% of students are taking the test! Statistics 101. The reason I took a closer look was Missouri's rank didn't make sense to me. My mother-in-law taught in MO until her retirement several years back, my husband graduated from there. He never took the SAT because MO state schools didn't require it then (don't know about now), kids who were college bound for state schools (the vast majority in his town) took the ACT. I'm thinking those top scoring states with those teeny-tiny participation rates take the ACT for their state schools and the kids who end up taking the SAT are already top students who are looking at out of state schools and private colleges.
With such a variation in participation rates, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Now if someone feels compelled to create a chart (not me!) comparing scores from states with similar participation rates, I'd love to see it. My guess is Texas would be closer to the middle. Still not stellar, but not 47th either.
Great post you hit it on the knob
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Old 03-19-2009, 10:30 PM
 
669 posts, read 1,055,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
where do you think the MONEY to pay teachers that level is coming from...
get real...
and frankly I know some great teachers and some terribly unmotivated students--as long as students think that education is painless, low-energy, consumption sport--SAT scores and everything else about education is not going anywhere...
forgot to mention probably significant reason why TX does have large numbers of students who take the SAT
the emphasis on high school sports--football and basketball in particular...
and students desire to get sports scholarship and be professional athletes....
they have to score in a certain percentile to get into Division I schools...DivI usually better chance for pro sport offer...
that is one reason why so many students with mediocre abilities are taking the SAT...
Teacher salaries come from the state - far as I know...

Do you know what the score to get into a Div anything college is... probably not but it's low.. like 30th percentile low.... so lets not make it look like you got to get a 1400 to get in anywhere....

Again, states like Fl, CA, NV, AZ all have similarities, but just not in the scores.....

any other ideas???
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Old 03-19-2009, 10:32 PM
 
669 posts, read 1,055,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdogg817 View Post
Great post you hit it on the knob
I agree you can probably throw out 20 states all together... but then what.. TX would be near last. Again, facts are facts... the scores are low.. and in comparison w/ states w/ the same % of students taking the test it's not good.

I personally think that is one reason why TX does not have a world class university yet. UTA is a great school, but outside of TX it not well known for it's academics. Rice is an excellent school, but my high school was bigger than it.
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Old 03-21-2009, 09:55 AM
 
2,231 posts, read 4,034,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWong View Post
very good points. HOwever, states like Florida, CA, AZ and NV have much of the same demographics and influx of students coming in and out of the area, yet still score higher?
No, the reason the SAT scores differ is because the demographic SAT population sample is different. That is the usual reason that one statistic is different than another... you are comparing apples to oranges.

Your task is to prove that the demographic differences are less significant than the SAT differences. So far, you have no evidence of that.
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Old 03-22-2009, 04:24 AM
 
Location: Katy,TX.
2,827 posts, read 4,363,117 times
Reputation: 2133
Great point DWong, I've been saying this all alone. I think the reason why Realtors and people on this board are always talking about buying into a good school dist. is because there are so many sub-par ones all around Texas.

In CA. I never really heard people talking about "moving to this area because of a freaking school dist" LOL. I believe a kid can do well anywhere(any school dist.) as long as he/she is motivated and the parents are involved PERIOD!

One would think by the way some of these people post, if you buy into FriscoISD their kids will have a guaranteed path to college. LOL
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