"Frisco evolving into destination city" (Dallas, Plano: middle-class, 2010)

[MSPMom]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Where is this notion coming from that Frisco is a Master Planned Community? It was a small railroad and farming town over 100 years old, then the mall came on its southern border, then different subdivisions started popping up all around. The big job centers in far NW Plano are very close to Frisco, would think that had as much to do with Frisco's growth as anything (EDS, JC Penney, Countrywide, Dr Pepper, etc).

The biggest Master planned community I know of in this part of DFW would be Stonebridge Ranch in McKinney. It is what set the tone for McKinney's growth, but still McKinney is a very diversified community, has a beautiful historic district and old courthouse square.

Some people love new, some loved established. Again, I ask, why bash things that are different from what you have or where you live? And I don't call it master planned because it is new. I mean, what is that different about it? A golf course? Those are all over the metroplex. A pool? Again, all over the area. Nice ameinities like parks connected by trails and well planned out streets? I guess that is the hallmark of a planned community. Why is this seen as sterile? The landscaping of Stonebridge Ranch is the main thing that makes it stand out from being cookie cutter -- which of course is one of the main bashes I see here against the suburbs.

Oh well, don't know if this is therapeutic as 4th gen dallas said it would be for me, more an exercise in futility. Well this is how I spent much of my off day, won't be around to defend Collin County much more 8^{D}

Saintmarks, I think you're taking all of this a bit too personal. My post wasn't meant to bash the suburbs. I've lived in both suburbs and cities and have enjoyed both, but Dallas is the first place I've lived that has about a zillion planned subdivisions. I realize Frisco itself is not a master planned community, but it has TONS of neighborhoods (same with Allen, Plano, etc) that look like replicas of each other.

I was curious as to how many people find this completely normal. Again, in the midwest you simply don't see a million subdivisions in one city with huge arched gates, pools, tennis courts, walking paths, etc. Nothing inherently wrong with these things, but for me it all feels like a manufactured neighborhood rather than an organic one.

It's late and I may not be making sense. So I'll just say, good for you if you love the northern burbs. If I had to live in the burbs I would pick Rockwall/Heath, Richardson or Garland because I prefer the vibe, which is much different than what you find up north. But that's a whole other discussion...

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by MSPMom

Saintmarks, I think you're taking all of this a bit too personal. My post wasn't meant to bash the suburbs. I've lived in both suburbs and cities and have enjoyed both, but Dallas is the first place I've lived that has about a zillion planned subdivisions. I realize Frisco itself is not a master planned community, but it has TONS of neighborhoods (same with Allen, Plano, etc) that look like replicas of each other.

I was curious as to how many people find this completely normal. Again, in the midwest you simply don't see a million subdivisions in one city with huge arched gates, pools, tennis courts, walking paths, etc. Nothing inherently wrong with these things, but for me it all feels like a manufactured neighborhood rather than an organic one.

It's late and I may not be making sense. So I'll just say, good for you if you love the northern burbs. If I had to live in the burbs I would pick Rockwall/Heath, Richardson or Garland because I prefer the vibe, which is much different than what you find up north. But that's a whole other discussion...

I guess I like to discuss thing and have a fun back and forth, nothing personal, but I do see a lot of suburb bashing from Dallasites. Perhaps that is not the intention, but things posted here come across as elitist. There is even a post here equating northern suburbanites as lemmings. At least that is what the post within the context of this thread seems to say.

I don't LOVE the northern suburbs. I am a Georgian, love the trees and hills of home, and despite my hatred of rural life when I was a kid, would love to be back on the family land 60 miles south of Atlanta. Extended family dynamics beyond my control have forced me here in Dallas suburbia.

I love many of the Dallas neighborhoods. However, my kids are in McKinney, my job is in Frisco and my wallet can't afford anything in a safe neighborhood in Dallas. So I am blooming where I am planted. Perhaps my unwanted circumstances have me a little touchy, but when I come on this thread, originated by someone asking about Frisco, which I know a thing or two about, and I see it called Stepford, robotic, eerily creepy and home of lemmings, it does raise a hackle or two -- and I'm not even a native.

I don't live in Dallas proper, but I don't have to bash it. It seems rather middle schoolish all the snide remarks made about the suburbs. Even the OP about a destination city is pooh poohed and few even read the link from the Dallas Business Journal to see what qualified it for that designation. The article said "evolve" and people are saying it is no Paris or San Fran. The article had nothing even close to saying that.

I have a graduate level education but I come from humble beginnings and I guess I don't like class elitiism and snobbery. This forum reeked with it, I don't have the opportunity to speak of it when I am confronted with it in my job day after day. This place was a nice place to vent, so perhaps 4th gen Dallas is correct, I needed a place to let off steam. But that still doesn't mean you Dallasites aren't a bunch of stuck ups that need to be taken down a notch or two when you post inane drivel like has been posted here.

And MSPMom, I am not equating you with that, I was answering the call of the city of McKinney or Frisco as Master planned. I don't know of any master planned cities in this area. In Georgia, Peachtree City is a completely planned city of about 40,000. Everything planned from the get go. These Collin cities were rural railroad depots and farming centers from the 1800s. They have seen explosive growth, including some master planned neighborhoods and subdivisions, but the cities themselves aren't necessarily master planned. Some planning has been done on the whole, but would see that as a positive not a negative.

[MSPMom]

Totally understand. We all hope to thrive and succeed wherever we end up...even when it's not our ideal. I'm glad Frisco, McKinney, et al are working for you for now.

I think there's more humor behind the snobbery and elitism than you realize. There have been so many posts on the city vs. suburbs topic and many are pretty hilarious. So I think people just let it fly for the fun of it. Plus, many parts of Dallas tend toward the extremes, which makes it easy to poke fun at certain things. Yes, all kinds of people live all over DFW, but you find a lot of CERTAIN types in certain areas.

Coming from a much more laid back and reserved part of the country, Dallas is pretty amusing.

[jobert]

If it wasn't for the suburbs, my condo in-town would have been 3x the cost due to competition. Nature will run it's course.. my recommendatiopn to any new homeowner that plans to ever make a profit: buy small, buy local - you'll thank yourself in 10 years. Housing prices inside loop12 continue to shoot up as more people begin to catch on, and in general start to "get it" as they have in other cities around the country. There has been a bust in this country, but not in centrally located areas. Suburbs further than 20 miles out in most metro areas have been slaughtered. The bust in Ca has been bedroom communities on the outer orbit of major cities. There are neighborhoods in central Dallas that have gone up 80% in the last 5 years. You can't say that about Colleyville, Sachse, etc. The bag on suburbanites is their perceived ignorance of the new realities as we live in a world where we must do more with less, and jumping in a car to drive 5 miles for groceries, coffee, etc will not only be considered an unaffordable luxery, but socially irresponsible as well.

1. buying suburban is short sighted.
2. You might make your money back when you sell the house -after adjusted for inflation- but I doubt it.
3. Complain elsewhere when gas rises past $4 AGAIN (refer point #1)

[Tina411]

My husband was offered a job with the City of Frisco and now I am not so sure I want to live there.

[Grainraiser]

Originally Posted by Tina411

My husband was offered a job with the City of Frisco and now I am not so sure I want to live there.

There is nothing wrong with living in Frisco. It's a nice city with great schools. I find it funny that folks are defending Frisco because usually it is the folks who live north calling the other sectors of DFW non-liveable. I live in a southeast burb and I have had to defend it many times. Like many I would love to live in Dallas but the nice area's are simply outside my price range. Many to those post are just friendly hood rivalries. Nothing to worry about.

[FarNorthDallas]

Frisco is fine. It's almost all new. It's a consumer's paradise. The schools are above average. Most of the residents are not natives to Dallas. The downsides are the traffic, the road construction, the shifting school attendance zones, the lack of mom and pop places, the distance and toll fees to get to downtown Dallas and back, the underdeveloped trees, the foreclosures, the crazy strict homeowners associations, the long wait for a table at a chain restaurant on Saturday nights and the seemingly daily poop in the community pools.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by FarNorthDallas

Frisco is fine. It's almost all new. It's a consumer's paradise. The schools are above average. Most of the residents are not natives to Dallas. The downsides are the traffic, the road construction, the shifting school attendance zones, the lack of mom and pop places, the distance and toll fees to get to downtown Dallas and back, the underdeveloped trees, the foreclosures, the crazy strict homeowners associations, the long wait for a table at a chain restaurant on Saturday nights and the seemingly daily poop in the community pools.

Since I am currently house-hunting I can see why Frisco is an easy choice for some people. It has highly rated schools, lots of new housing stock, and it's all clean and new. But it's definitely not for everyone!

[FarNorthDallas]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

Since I am currently house-hunting I can see why Frisco is an easy choice for some people. It has highly rated schools, lots of new housing stock, and it's all clean and new. But it's definitely not for everyone!

Easy choice is a good way to put it. With Frisco you can just pick anywhere and be okay, but when you come closer into town you have to have much more precision when looking for a house and a neighborhood. Two blocks this way, a quarter mile that way and you've gone from fabulous school to terrible school or from a neighborhood with increasing values to a neighborhood on the decline.

I think there is one elementary school in Frisco that is a bit "different" and it's the one elementary school where they bus in all of the ESL kids from all over the district into it, plus it has the neighborhood kids. Some parents don't mind it and others hate it and say their house values suffer from it.

[unexpected]

what's funny is that people STILL think that everyone who lives in Frisco commutes to Dallas everyday- as if Dallas exists in a vacuum, and the suburbs solely exist for people to commute back and forth from their jobs.

Newsflash: The suburbs are huge. Many of these suburbs would be the largest cities in other states. Many, many people that live in these suburbs also only commute to these suburbs.

While you guys may complain about that 30 minute drive, guess what? we never have to do it!

Saying that cities like Plano/Frisco are "going to be a wasteland in 15-20 years" is extremely shortsighted. the Plano area is a HUGE job center- it has as many jobs as downtown Dallas. If you work in Plano, living in Frisco is just fine.

Because land is a lot cheaper here than in downtown, you can build actual corporate campuses. Everyday, companies move to the "down-trodden" suburbs because it's closer to their employees and it's cheaper for them- so much so that when a company moves to Downtown Dallas, it's front page news, and everyone thinks is amazing. You simply don't hear about companies moving to the suburbs because it's happening all the time.

Honestly, who cares about this stuff so much? Arguing that Dallas is superior to any suburb is misguided. It's like arguing about different shades of white. Dallas is a good "living" city, but it's never going to be a ridiculously cool city (right now). If places like New York City, D.C, and San Francisco, were "10" cities, Dallas would be a "3" and the suburbs would be 2.5.

We spend all this time arguing about the .5 difference, when really, we need to focus on what Dallas needs to become a "10" level city. Once we do that, we can pursue things like the olympics and other major attractions to make dallas a true global city.