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Old 09-19-2009, 11:10 AM
 
294 posts, read 648,191 times
Reputation: 72

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The corner of the page says Seal Journey. I do believe this page is from one of those books with answers being given. That's even worse, I can't imagine that the book would be wrong. Why wouldn't the teacher check the answers?
I find it puzzling, from what I can see most people think these answers are wrong. An experienced teacher should know these things by heart.
I asked my son to explain his answers and I was pleased with his answer. How does he even know, LOL? He said that in these examples they summarize what someone else said, it is not a direct quote.
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Old 09-19-2009, 11:57 AM
 
6,586 posts, read 16,438,528 times
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I remember growing up when teachers would make mistakes that cost me points I would be really mad. The first time it happened that I remember was Texas History in 7th grade and I remember sitting there stunned, just stunned, at the big error this teacher/coach made. He really had no clue about Texas History. But no one called him out.

When it happened the next year in Science, I told the teacher she was an idoit. It was my only trip to the principal's office in my 1st-12th grade years, although the principal refused to see me. I figured he agreed with me. I had some really really bad teachers and one brilliant one (4th grade). This was in Richardson ISD in the 1970s when it was growing by leaps and bounds, fast and furious, when crowd control was the name of the game. It makes me leery of any fast growing district.

By I digress. None of those 3 sentences call for quotes in my opinion. Grammar is interesting though. I proofread and edit at work and have worked for years as a proofreader and editor, and the rules change sometimes and people are taught different things. We used to never write "Harris's" to show possessive on a proper name ended in "s" and we used to never put a comma before the "and" in a series, but now you see these things.

Plus, teachers wanting one answer when two are correct has been going on since the beginning of time. It's frustrating.

But don't proofread my posts on city-data. It's literally something I turn on and off and it's off on city-data.
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:44 PM
 
14,619 posts, read 27,576,053 times
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your problem is the the principal will not admit that the teacher is wrong--
especially to you
principal may not know him/herself what is correct choice without checking against the teacher's guide

there is usually an ELA coordinator with a district for upper and lower grades
that person is in charge of supervising English teachers and should definitely be someone with at least an MA in English--and come command of grammar as well as lit/writing instruction...

I have known English teachers whose children have receive improper instruction in elementary school and they did not get any relief when they went to confront/ask/question the teachers about what they were teaching in class--
the teacher is wrong--but getting anyone to admit it is going to be the problem...
I would ask to see the teacher's guide--because it may not be from a third-party publisher--could be something taken off the Internet or handout from some other teacher...
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Plano, TX
2,073 posts, read 3,582,530 times
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Yeah, this is ridiculous. This just might be the ammo you need to get your son back with his original teacher.

You should claim his self-esteem was hurt by his unjustly low grade, and explain how he is losing confidence in his English grammar abilities.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:49 PM
 
578 posts, read 794,430 times
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What is the point of complaining about a teacher here? What is that accomplishing? Sounds like you are just picking whatever you want to try to get the child switched back. This is not even part of your original argument that the other teacher has made a connection. You said his last year's teacher was horrible and so were all the other teacher's he's ever had including this one. You assume that the principal shares this view or that anyone else does and that is the basis of your argument that he finally has a good teacher. I don't think anyone accepts the basis of the argument that he had horrible teachers, since the principal is the one who hires them.
As far as the lesson goes, I see the point of it. They are learning the punctuation when sentences have a he/she said and if there is a quotation where they should go. Just because the teacher made a few bad sentences doesn't give you any reason do denounce a teacher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
Yeah, this is ridiculous. This just might be the ammo you need to get your son back with his original teacher.

You should claim his self-esteem was hurt by his unjustly low grade, and explain how he is losing confidence in his English grammar abilities.
It's definitely not ammo to get your son back to the original teacher. This is blind ignorance talking. School's don't work like this. I hand students back low grades all the time. I would laugh if they accused me of hurting their self-esteem. TOUGH!! If they are that hurt by one grade they got a rough road ahead called the real world.
If it were me personally I would accept the answers if someone pointed them out to me and I was in the wrong. Teachers create hundreds of assignments and tests, including thousands of problems. We are not gods, we will make mistakes. There are mistakes in textbooks edited by several professional editors.
What did you do to ask about the assignment? Did the teacher say that each sentence should have quotation marks or that some may need quotation marks while others may not? Seems like the lesson was not sentence analysis, but just the mechanics of where to put the quotation marks when it says he/she says, "yadda yadda yadda." This might have led the teacher not to be careful about the sentences she wrote. You are not really telling us what the teacher has been saying. Why didn't your son put quotation marks in, or did he put them in the wrong place? I know why you didn't put them in, but did your son originate the argument that they shouldn't go in there because they are not needed?
My philosophy is that you may teach 75-130 students a day and you can't make every parent happy. Everyone has their "parent from hell" and you seem to be the one for this teacher. Are all the parents up in arms about this teacher like you? You were against her before she even came, so anything you bring up later is because of your bias beforehand. The original teacher probably has the same mistakes, maybe even used the same worksheet, but I'm sure if the original teacher had done it, it would have been overlooked by you.
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:16 PM
 
294 posts, read 648,191 times
Reputation: 72
TXRunner, I don't see your point. I am not up in arms about this teacher and that's certainly not why I check all the paperwork.
I started doing that with everything that comes back from school, ever since I noticed the mistakes made by his teacher last year. Until then I didn't think teacher made such mistakes, especially since they have answers available for almost all the work that is given out.
There should be no mistakes. This teacher is supposed to be experienced - so has she been teaching this way for years?
So yes, I would check the work no matter who the teacher is. Like I said, it's because I happened to notice the other teacher's mistakes. Up until then I did check, but I didn't pay very close attention.
To get back on the subject, this is what it says at the top of the page:
Use quotation marks at the beginning and end of a person's exact words.
Do not use quotation marks when you do not use the speaker's exact words.

I showed my son his work and asked him to explain in his own words why he didn't use quotation marks. He said it wasn't a direct quote, but a summary of what someone else said.

For now I think my son will go back with the work, I hope she will fix the mistake. To me it isn't so much about the grade, but I want him to learn correctly. Of course I am extremely disappointed if every year he gets one of these teachers who keep making mistakes. Why is it that so many people think this should be accepted? This isn't just about my kid, but don't people complain that the US is behind other countries academically? Shouldn't it be in everyone's best interest to have teachers who actually know what they are doing? This isn't rocket science, it is basic grammar!
I am sorry if I get carried away, but after a couple of years of having to deal with this I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:21 PM
 
294 posts, read 648,191 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
your problem is the the principal will not admit that the teacher is wrong--
especially to you
principal may not know him/herself what is correct choice without checking against the teacher's guide

there is usually an ELA coordinator with a district for upper and lower grades
that person is in charge of supervising English teachers and should definitely be someone with at least an MA in English--and come command of grammar as well as lit/writing instruction...

I have known English teachers whose children have receive improper instruction in elementary school and they did not get any relief when they went to confront/ask/question the teachers about what they were teaching in class--
the teacher is wrong--but getting anyone to admit it is going to be the problem...
I would ask to see the teacher's guide--because it may not be from a third-party publisher--could be something taken off the Internet or handout from some other teacher...
There are page numbers on that sheet of paper, so I assume there must be an answer key available.
Thank you for your answer, I hope she will check once my son brings up the issue. Otherwise I guess I will have to ask her to do that.
This time my son believed his answer was right, but previously he doubted himself. Maybe as he grows he will be more confident to bring up such issues with his teachers. Although I keep hoping it won't be necessary!
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Plano, TX
2,073 posts, read 3,582,530 times
Reputation: 1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRunner View Post
I hand students back low grades all the time. I would laugh if they accused me of hurting their self-esteem. TOUGH!!
Really? So if you graded a child's paper incorrectly, you would laugh at them if they pointed out your mistakes, instead of admitting your error?

This is a pretty big screw-up. If you ask me, it goes beyond misreading a grading rubric. It appears to me that this teacher has no concept of the difference between direct and indirect quotations.

You can never be 100% certain, but I'm pretty damn sure that at least one or two TAKS questions at that grade level will be on that very topic.

I did a Google search on the topic at hand. The first hit was this site :

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/577/01/


I love the gem found at the bottom of that page. It's out of context, but comically relevant here.


Quote:
In other words, never put quotes in your paper simply because your teacher says, "You must use quotes."
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:32 PM
 
578 posts, read 794,430 times
Reputation: 596
The original argument was not that you wanted a teacher that doesn't make any mistakes. So the story is kind of changing. There is no teacher who is perfect and doesn't make mistakes. Are you worried about learning this concept or changing his teacher? You kind of flip between arguments depending on what suits you. You haven't even asked the teacher about the assignment yet? How do you know that other teacher doesn't make mistakes? Maybe the other teacher uses the same book. Obviously the original teacher hasn't caught the mistake either or she would have said something to the current teacher. In the other countries parents support the school and the teacher has more authority than we do. I'm sure they make mistakes too. Nobody said we are behind in punctuation. The TIMSS stats that have lead to this perception of us being behind are strictly math and science. We are not behind most countries and in fact in most of the tests we are above most of the countries academically. We are behind, as is almost every other country, some of the Asian countries.
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Plano, TX
2,073 posts, read 3,582,530 times
Reputation: 1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by pintea View Post
to me it isn't so much about the grade, but i want him to learn correctly. Of course i am extremely disappointed if every year he gets one of these teachers who keep making mistakes. Why is it that so many people think this should be accepted? This isn't just about my kid, but don't people complain that the us is behind other countries academically? Shouldn't it be in everyone's best interest to have teachers who actually know what they are doing? This isn't rocket science, it is basic grammar!
+1
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