Need Serious Advice from a Heating and Air Professional (loft, house)

[Vickrey]

Our heating bill from Nov 21-Dec 21 was $414.00. My house is a 2200 sq foot two story open to the upstairs..So our ceilings are tall downstairs. Our heating is electric with a heat pump. We have a single unit with two thermostats. One downstairs and the other upstairs. We have one air return and it is upstairs. We have two bedrooms and a loft up and our master bedroom is down.

I so dread getting our next bill. Last year it was $630.00 from from Feb-March and nothing like the cold we have been getting this year.

I put insulated curtains on the north windows and keep the thermostats both up and down at 67 degrees.

If anyone has experience with the best way to heat our home and knows what we can do to lower our electric bill...Should I turn the thermostat off upstairs. I'm totally lost on what to do. I'm thinking about turning it completely off up and down and just putting space heater in the master bedroom and live in there for the winter as a last resort. I've attached a picture to show the tall ceilings..etc...Any suggestions on what we should do with the thermostats as far as turning them off..up or down are welcome. Thanks!

[Korel]

Hi Vickery, Get ready for a load of advise. Some good and some maybe not. I would think you need to have an energy audit done on your home. There are companies that do that or you can do it yourself: Energy Savers: Do-It-Yourself Home Energy Audits In these extreme cold days we do just what you mentioned. I set the stats down to 60 and we have a heater in the bedroom. Good luck.

[Vickrey]

Any advice on energy efficent space heaters?

[tyanger]

Are the upper and lower levels both comfortable? or is there an extreme difference between them?

I've been going through similar problems with our home heating due to a downstairs HVAC zone that has it's ceiling continuous with that of a separate upstairs zone. With the extreme cold recently, the downstairs zone was running almost continuously to keep that level warm, but this resulted in all the hot air rising into the upstairs zone which caused that zone to never run, so some of the other rooms in the upstairs zone would become too cold, but the area adjacent to the upper level of the downstairs zone was uncomfortably warm (80+ degrees). Fortunately for me, my energy bill basically remained the same because while one unit was running much more, the other was not running at all. We ended up needing to have the thermostat upstairs moved closer to the rooms that were too cold, the downstairs thermostat moved closer to the return intake there, run 3 additional supply ducts to various rooms, and having multiple dampers placed in the supply ducts to various rooms of both zones (7 total). It's helped about 60% I'd guess - although now I need to go in the attic between cold and hot seasons to adjust the dampers. Total damage was just under $2000. We ended up paying to address the problems because we also noticed the upstairs rooms that were too cold in winter were also to warm in the summer - although what you're experiencing may be isolated to only days when the temperatures are extremely low. I don't know if any of this specifically helps you, I just wanted to list some options available.

[Vickrey]

Originally Posted by tyanger

Are the upper and lower levels both comfortable? or is there an extreme difference between them?

I've been going through similar problems with our home heating due to a downstairs HVAC zone that has it's ceiling continuous with that of a separate upstairs zone. With the extreme cold recently, the downstairs zone was running almost continuously to keep that level warm, but this resulted in all the hot air rising into the upstairs zone which caused that zone to never run, so some of the other rooms in the upstairs zone would become too cold, but the area adjacent to the upper level of the downstairs zone was uncomfortably warm (80+ degrees). Fortunately for me, my energy bill basically remained the same because while one unit was running much more, the other was not running at all. We ended up needing to have the thermostat upstairs moved closer to the rooms that were too cold, the downstairs thermostat moved closer to the return intake there, run 3 additional supply ducts to various rooms, and having multiple dampers placed in the supply ducts to various rooms of both zones (7 total). It's helped about 60% I'd guess - although now I need to go in the attic between cold and hot seasons to adjust the dampers. Total damage was just under $2000. We ended up paying to address the problems because we also noticed the upstairs rooms that were too cold in winter were also to warm in the summer - although what you're experiencing may be isolated to only days when the temperatures are extremely low. I don't know if any of this specifically helps you, I just wanted to list some options available.

The upstairs is always warm. It's the down stairs living area that is cool and drafty. You can see in the picture...Those two vents in the ceiling..Those are used to heat the downstairs. The heat does not make it down to us. These is one other vent in the wall in the dining area and another in the kitchen and one in the utility room and downstairs bath. Kitchen has lower ceilings so it stays pretty warm too. My unit runs all the time. It may shut off for just a few minutes..but then it's right back on.

I turned off the upstairs thermostat earlier this morning and it got 72 degress up there. My downstairs is set at 67 and running constantly now....I'm totally confused on what to do???? I was told a while back that you can call you electric company and they will send someone out to give tips and advice for free. May be doing that later today.

Thanks for sharing your experience...I need all the input i can get right now...I sure hope I don't have to put out that much cash....Paying these winter bills has broke the bank.

[TriumphOfTheSprint]

I can't tell from you photo if you have a ceiling fan in the large open area, but if you do you should try setting the rotation switch so that the air blows down and use that to help circulate the warm air down to the lower level.

Also, see if you can set the fan from auto to on on the upstairs thermostat. That will help circulate the upstairs warm air out of the registers to the open area.

[tyanger]

Ceiling fans could definitely help equalize/homogenize the temperatures in your home - if you have them already. Although, I suggest you switch them so they are 'pulling' air up from the room and 'pushing' towards the ceiling. Having air with a temperature much less than body temperature blowing directly onto your skin is uncomfortable for most people when you're trying to stay warm - so the indirect circulation of the reverse fan setting is what you want. (you're not trying for the cooling effect of direct air, you want the mixing of cool/warm layers in that room). You might try just switching all your fans to reverse/low setting and leave them on for a few days to see if that has any effect - hopefully you'll get more consistent on/off cycles instead of just on. Another thing we do in the winter is minimize the number of times you change the temperature if you have thermostats that allow for "wake" "away" "home" "sleep" etc. We found the problems were much worse during the time you transition from cooler to warmer settings. For our downstairs thermostat in the winter for example we leave it at 69 degrees 24/7. If we try to lower the temperature during the day then raise it later - during the warming up period the upstairs bakes.

We have a similar set up in one of our problem areas where 2 vents for the downstairs area are in the high ceiling upstairs just like yours. For that room we ended up installing dampers to those vents (so I can shut them off completely in colder months)* - and had 2 more vents installed halfway down the 20 foot wall in that room (luckily we had attic space behind that wall so it had easy access). This way some of the heated air actually reaches the floor level of the zone it is supposed to be heating and we aren't wasting as much energy heating the top 10 feet of that 20 foot tall room.

Unfortunately, with the large rooms and open floor plans that are so common now, while this set up works in the summer for cooling (cool air sinks) it does not in the winter for heating.

* shutting off the vent at the vent is an option in a pinch, but #1 you can't shut off airflow as effectively this way as you can with dampers and #2 you'll get a loud whistling sound from the vents if you do it this way.

[Vickrey]

Originally Posted by TriumphOfTheSprint

I can't tell from you photo if you have a ceiling fan in the large open area, but if you do you should try setting the rotation switch so that the air blows down and use that to help circulate the warm air down to the lower level.

Also, see if you can set the fan from auto to on on the upstairs thermostat. That will help circulate the upstairs warm air out of the registers to the open area.

Thanks for the tip. Just to make sure...The fan should rotate clock wise to bring the heat down, correct?

[tyanger]

Originally Posted by Vickrey

Thanks for the tip. Just to make sure...The fan should rotate clock wise to bring the heat down, correct?

I think on my fans the switch is down to blow down and up to suck up - but you probably just need to stand under it and feel which way the air is flowing b/c i don't know if there is a standard with regard to fan blade orientation, direction of rotation, switch position, etc.

[TriumphOfTheSprint]

Originally Posted by Vickrey

Thanks for the tip. Just to make sure...The fan should rotate clock wise to bring the heat down, correct?

I think clockwise (when viewed from below the fan) will actually pull air toward the ceiling. Tyanger has a good point - the counterclockwise rotation will be more effective at pushing the air toward the floor, but if you are right beneath it you might be uncomfortable with the air blowing down on you. Try both ways and see which you like better - either way you will be improving the circulation of the warm air.