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Old 05-20-2008, 08:08 AM
 
2,231 posts, read 5,321,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWong View Post
Hate to burst everyone's bubble but the tool they measured to take this was "Advanced Placement, Intl. Baccalaureate and/or Cambridge tests taken by all students at a school in 2007 divided by the number of graduating seniors"

How more lame can you get? It doesn't measure anything, but the number of kids who show up to take the exam. Says nothing about RESULTS! If I could start a charter school and make sure eveyone took the exam, I'd be on the list. Go figure... this guy is an idiot if that's how he measure how well schools perform... and he writes from newsweek.. geez... guess they'll hire anyone.
Well, many of the stats you refer to are also written by reporters in popular magazines. Actually, the number of kids who show up to take a test is potentially a pretty good indicator of quality.

 
Old 05-20-2008, 08:15 AM
 
2,231 posts, read 5,321,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Keep in mind when they do college ratings it include number of trees on campus.

Yes, that was not a joke, but the ratings tend to be.

Real thing it shows is that it is money that matters. The students are funded in the top Dallas ISD schools 3 to 4 times what the bottom end schools are. This is the Big House on the Plantation in action. While the Plantation suckth, the Big House is always nice. If you are in you in it is Golden. If you are in the field hand turf -- well it sucks being you. The vast numbers are not in blessed path, and are totally screwed.
Yes, achievement in life, including performance on tests, is strongly correlated with family background. That is a fact of life. But you don't like it? If we live in a universe designed by God, then you are in disagreement with God. If you believe we are in a Godless, random universe, then you disagree with the universe. Either way, you have a problem.

I will insist, though, that the performance of students is not an indicator of the quality of the school, but of the students. In fact, the more capable the students, the more slipshod the teaching can be without being obvious. If the students are brighter, then the teaching doesn't have to be as good to achieve acceptable results.

Rich people usually join expensive country clubs, if they join one at all, but joining an expensive club will not automatically help a poor man become rich.
 
Old 05-20-2008, 09:05 AM
 
5,092 posts, read 9,604,630 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace View Post
Yes, achievement in life, including performance on tests, is strongly correlated with family background. That is a fact of life. But you don't like it? If we live in a universe designed by God, then you are in disagreement with God. If you believe we are in a Godless, random universe, then you disagree with the universe. Either way, you have a problem.

I will insist, though, that the performance of students is not an indicator of the quality of the school, but of the students. In fact, the more capable the students, the more slipshod the teaching can be without being obvious. If the students are brighter, then the teaching doesn't have to be as good to achieve acceptable results.

Rich people usually join expensive country clubs, if they join one at all, but joining an expensive club will not automatically help a poor man become rich.
Guess you missed the point about money and the school district. That is NOT a Rich Dad Poor Dad thing. And has nothing to do with affluence of the family or even the community.

This is public money we are talking about. All (as in ALL) of the kids' money. What Dallas ISD has done is route LOTS of money to the Magnet Schools and select upper end schools, while screwing over and taking that same money AWAY from the bottom end schools.

Like you say, rich and smart folks are going to do well with less regard to their situation. But most likely they will get out of a situation like the Dallas ISD. Poor and dumb folks are more likely to be trapped in their situation -- like the Dallas ISD. What is being done -- taking money away from the poor kids schools and shipping it to upper end and magnet schools -- completely screws over the bottom end kids to serve the already rich and smart. Ain't Dallas Corporate Values system Great? What's not to love?
 
Old 05-20-2008, 09:09 AM
 
669 posts, read 1,406,641 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace View Post
Well, many of the stats you refer to are also written by reporters in popular magazines. Actually, the number of kids who show up to take a test is potentially a pretty good indicator of quality.
Showing up to take a test says nothing about results, just ability to show up.
 
Old 05-20-2008, 10:00 AM
 
2,231 posts, read 5,321,863 times
Reputation: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Guess you missed the point about money and the school district. That is NOT a Rich Dad Poor Dad thing. And has nothing to do with affluence of the family or even the community.

This is public money we are talking about. All (as in ALL) of the kids' money. What Dallas ISD has done is route LOTS of money to the Magnet Schools and select upper end schools, while screwing over and taking that same money AWAY from the bottom end schools.

Like you say, rich and smart folks are going to do well with less regard to their situation. But most likely they will get out of a situation like the Dallas ISD. Poor and dumb folks are more likely to be trapped in their situation -- like the Dallas ISD. What is being done -- taking money away from the poor kids schools and shipping it to upper end and magnet schools -- completely screws over the bottom end kids to serve the already rich and smart. Ain't Dallas Corporate Values system Great? What's not to love?
Well, DISD diverted money to favor the Arts Magnet school over schools for artistic klutzes like me, and so Dallas is becoming known for talent like Norah Jones, Roy Hargrove, Erikayh Badu, etc. Norah Jones is simply a better investment for the community than people like me who cannot sing a note.

A public education is intended to benefit the community, not provide amusement for individuals. That's why childless people are taxed and are willing to pay those taxes... there's something in it for the community. And if the purpose is to benefit the community, the community decides how it is best served.
 
Old 05-20-2008, 10:05 AM
 
2,231 posts, read 5,321,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWong View Post
Showing up to take a test says nothing about results, just ability to show up.
Well, we disagree. I maintain that the people who show up for advanced testing are more likely to be advanced than would a random sample of the population.
 
Old 05-20-2008, 10:38 AM
 
669 posts, read 1,406,641 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace View Post
Well, we disagree. I maintain that the people who show up for advanced testing are more likely to be advanced than would a random sample of the population.
Maybe, but for the 10th time says nothing about results.... believe me alot of people fail that test too....

Again, those tests are cheap either! It's the affluent kids that take em... you can take a few costing hundreds of $$$
 
Old 05-20-2008, 10:46 AM
 
Location: la hacienda
2,259 posts, read 8,632,265 times
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>> It's the affluent kids that take em... you can take a few costing hundreds of $$$<<

Not true. The Rio Grande Valley schools, that ranked #44 & #46
<44 South Texas High School for Health Professions Mercedes Texas 4.551 55.1 54.4
46 Science Academy of South Texas Mercedes Texas 4.543 43 62.7 <

Come from low income and English as a second language, families. There's about 40% of those students qualifing for free lunch.

Also, when my son attended high school in FL, we did not pay for his AP exams or PSAT for his freshman and sophomore year. I did here in Texas, so it must vary state to state.
 
Old 05-20-2008, 10:57 AM
 
5,092 posts, read 9,604,630 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace View Post
Well, DISD diverted money to favor the Arts Magnet school over schools for artistic klutzes like me, and so Dallas is becoming known for talent like Norah Jones, Roy Hargrove, Erikayh Badu, etc. Norah Jones is simply a better investment for the community than people like me who cannot sing a note.

A public education is intended to benefit the community, not provide amusement for individuals. That's why childless people are taxed and are willing to pay those taxes... there's something in it for the community. And if the purpose is to benefit the community, the community decides how it is best served.
As many communities did in the days before Brown v. Board of Education.

[some background may be needed if you were Dallas ISD . . .

Brown v. Board of Education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

take a close look at that map on there, too. ]


The "community" (of connected folks) back then decided to serve and provide for the kids they liked and screw over the bottom end.

Not that much different today, huh?
 
Old 05-20-2008, 11:39 AM
 
2,231 posts, read 5,321,863 times
Reputation: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
As many communities did in the days before Brown v. Board of Education.

[some background may be needed if you were Dallas ISD . . .

Brown v. Board of Education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

take a close look at that map on there, too. ]


The "community" (of connected folks) back then decided to serve and provide for the kids they liked and screw over the bottom end.

Not that much different today, huh?
That's right... and it never will change. Every society on earth selects the people to reward and not to reward. The losers always whine about not getting "their fair share". In fact, there is no such thing.
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