Parochial schools in Dallas (Plano, Paris: credit, how much, home)

[bettylu]

Can someone give me a truthful description of the parochial schools in and around N. Dallas? Am considering them for children but can't seem to get a consistent answer when I ask people in person. Have toured Christ the King and St. Rita - they seem so crowded and more "teacher driven" than other privates

[SMS_Parent]

Let me start by saying that I am a big proponent of Dallas parochial schools. So while my answer is truthful from my perspective, it is coming from that perspective. (And the reality of the matter is that everyone who answers your question will have some sort of built-in bias.) With those preliminaries out of the way, I will say that I believe that dollar for dollar Dallas parochial schools provide the most effective education in the Dallas area.

My children have done very well with their parochial school educations. Those who are old enough have all achieved state level recognition through the Duke Talent Identification program (along with over ten percent of their St. Monica classmates) -- which puts them in the top one percent of all students their age in the nation -- and our oldest will definitely be recognized at some level through the National Merit program this fall. Ten percent of the members of St. Monica's class of 2006, currently seniors in high school, were recognized this year in the National Merit program. Your mileage may, of course, vary.

Another data point to consider -- high school performance. My children's classmates have gone to a variety of high schools after St. Monica -- Hockaday, Cistercian, Booker T. Washington, Parish, Ursuline and Jesuit. No St. Monica parent I know has said that their child wasn't prepared for the rigor of their high school. Both the girls we know who chose Hockaday after St. Monica are straight A students at Hockaday -- which wouldn't be possibly if they weren't adequately prepared by St. Monica.

The principal at St. Monica would tell you that in looking at the achievement test scores of the student body as a whole, "the longer they have been at St. Monica, the better they do." That was true for my children. Their achievement test scores got better and better every year.

In comparing parochial schools to the higher priced "elite" privates you really need to look at your resources and how you want to spend them. Right now, most parochial schools are charging approximately $6000 per year in tuition and fees. The elite privates are charging roughly $23,000 per year. Notably this difference in tuition is likely to increase at an accelerating pace each year because most schools increase their tuition rates in terms of a percentage of their base tuition.

That $17,000 per student difference buys the elite private schools bigger campuses (which makes them feel less crowded) and generally nicer landscaping and architecture. It also allows slightly smaller class sizes -- but the difference in class size isn't as significant as I would expect if I were paying almost four times the tuition. I don't think it translates to better teachers. The reality is the pay level for teachers is about the same, as are the qualifications of the teachers.

Over a nine year period, that difference in tuition will add up for your family just as it does for the schools at issue -- particularly if you have multiple children. If $17,000 per child, per year really doesn't matter to you, then you might be happier at one of the elite privates. However, if that $17,000 per year is going to have to come from your child's high school or college funding or your retirement -- or even worse if you are going to have to borrow to fund that $17,000 difference, think twice -- and then think again.

[jtrichel]

Here is our take, having analyzed this same question lately. With all due respect to SMS, everything that she describes in terms of the success of her children may have absolutely nothing to do with St. Monica. In fact, a lot of "experts" would say that it is their genetics and involved parents, etc. that makes them successful, not St. Monica. Now, do I completely buy that, no...but just saying, we dont know how her children may have done (in terms of Duke/other tests, etc.) in Dallas public schools. Maybe just as well.

After touring the parochial elementary schools in Dallas and Tarrant county, we came to the conclusion that there are a couple public school districts (notably HPISD and Carroll) that may be more "rigorous" academically. If you look at curriculum and the "specials" (science lab, robotics, reading clubs, library/media, etc.) So our conclusion was dont send kids to parochial if you are only concerned about academics...they may get a more rigorous experience in the best public schools, and/or arguably the "elite" private schools.

However, having said all this, we are still leaning toward parochial schools because of the sense of community, smaller size (even though they may seem crowded, they are nothing compared to the huge public school districts), character building/Catholicism, etc. The academics are at LEAST good, maybe more. So I guess my point with this post.... is that how much better the Dallas Parochial schools are academically compared to the best public schools is questionable...and I do think that the "elite" private schools are probably tops in academics. Its more than just big campuses... the classes ARE smaller (8 to 1 student to teacher ratio at St. Mark's, for instance), there are more academic resources, etc... but as said, VERY expensive.

So maybe the reason to go wtih the North Dallas Parochial schools is the nice combination of good academics and great community/character formation at an unbeatable price. I find $6k/year infinitely reasonable for what you get.

Our "anectodal" impressions, from touring the schools and talking with the teachers/administrators is that you cant go wrong with any of the three. Our OPINIONS only:

St. Monica - great school, great facilities/resources. VERY BIG. In some respects felt larger than we ideally wanted in terms of school feel. The classes themselves are no bigger than any other Parochial. SMS would say maybe even a student or two less.

St. Rita - felt a little "urban" given the location. felt a little more traditional/stricter than St. Monica. seemed to have a bit more focus on the academics. seems to have a great relationship to feed into Jesuit and Ursuline...although I know this is true for all the Catholic schools. Seemed being on Jesuit campus maybe had even more an impact with feeding to that school. A fair amount of kids we know from our son's current school (Lamplighter) end up at St. Rita. We dont know any that have gone to St. Monica (maybe just physical proximity issue)/

Christ the King - the "Park Cities" Catholic school experience. Very focused on parishoners. Feels difficult to get into if you havent been a Parishoner with children on the list. A little uppity in terms of environment. Wonderfully old/traditional church and school grounds. Lots of tradition/history. Nicest physical setting. Probably has a lot of kids from Highland Park and University Park. Maybe the most traditional of the 3? Seemed to emphasize technology more than the other two.

Again, we are novices too...so take these impressions with a grain of salt.

[SMS_Parent]

Originally Posted by jtrichel

Here is our take, having analyzed this same question lately. With all due respect to SMS, everything that she describes in terms of the success of her children may have absolutely nothing to do with St. Monica.

After touring the parochial elementary schools in Dallas and Tarrant county, we came to the conclusion that there are a couple public school districts (notably HPISD and Carroll) that may be more "rigorous" academically.

While I am happy to take the credit for my kids' good genes, don't discount parochial schools in terms of their academic rigor with regard to the top local publics. All of the "specials" that jtrichel lists are available at CKS, SMS, and SRS. CKS and SMS in particular have very active robotics programs. St. Monica just renovated its science labs with design input from scientists at SMU and UT Southwestern. Check out the SMS website for pictures of the double sided fume hood in action. St. Rita is in the process of renovating its science labs to the same standard. St. Monica is completely gutting and renovating its library and media center this summer.

Just out of curiosity, I did some comparative research (via school press releases) on Duke TIP honorees for my daughters' grade, which had 13 honorees -- roughly 14% of the students in the grade -- and right around average for St. Monica in any given year. During the same year, the Southlake middle schools had 35 honorees split fairly evenly between the two schools -- or roughly 5% of the seventh grade at both middle schools. HPISD had 11 honorees -- roughly 2% of the seventh grade.

Having a high percentage of Duke TIP honorees isn't necessarily a measure of academic rigor -- because as jtrichel points out genes, socioeconomics and parental involvement do often play a role in the achievement of students who are working on the Duke TIP level. Having a high percentage of Duke honorees is, however, an good indication that the school offers an academic environment that parents of academic high achievers find acceptable for their children. It also means that a bright student will have plenty of academically advanced classmates -- which provides more challenges for the group of students as a whole and ensures that there is a critical mass of students for whom academically challenging curriculum enhancement is offered.

I guess the bottom line of my long winded post is this -- jtrichel is right, the North Dallas parochial schools offer a great sense of community which continues beyond graduation from the school -- and that sense of community is one very good reason for choosing a parochial school -- but they also offer an academic environment in which a bright student will thrive and find plenty of companionship.

[Big G]

Although I agree with SMS_Parent that you can get a very good education at the DFW Catholic schools, I have to take exception with her use of the Duke TIP program as a measure of academic achievement.

I suspect the high percentage of St. Monica students in the program has to do with the school "pushing" the program far more than Southlake or HP.

If the school isn't strongly encouraging participation in the program, a lot of kids who could qualify won't even be aware of the program. Beyond that, if your child has little interest in doing the Duke TIP summer courses, very few families will decide to spend money just so their kid can sit for yet another standardized test.

At my son's elementary school (in PISD), Duke TIP was never even mentioned. I was only aware of it because a former co-worker had her kids in the program. As a result, my son was the first kid in anyone's memory at the school to take part in Duke TIP. Is that a correct measure of the school? Hardly - after all, this is the same school that has produced several Plano Senior vals and sals over the years. It's more a reflection of the lack of knowledge and/or interest in the Duke TIP program among the teachers and families.

---

Going off-topic: I'm been pretty underwhelmed by the whole Duke TIP program, at least as far as what's available for my 6th grader. We've gotten a lot more use out of the Johns Hopkins CTY program.

[SMS_Parent]

Originally Posted by Big G

I suspect the high percentage of St. Monica students in the program has to do with the school "pushing" the program far more than Southlake or HP.

St. Monica gives each seventh grade student who qualifies for TIP testing a letter to take home explaining how to register for the program. There is no further follow up with the students who qualify. According to my friend whose son is in Southlake they too were informed in this fashion that they qualified for testing -- and since both HPISD and Carroll publicize their students who are recognized under the program -- I would say that they push the program at least to the extent that St. Monica does.

[bettylu]

Thank you all for the above responses. They are super informative and I appreciate you taking the time. I wish Cistercian had a female equivalent school. What are the opinions on St. Thomas Aquinas? (Although it is too far probably, I am just curious what the kids are like coming out of there.)

[Spree]

Ruth Vail, the principal of Woodrow high school sent her child to STA over Lakewood Elementary and Long, so it must be decent. I don't like that the lower school is in a different location than the upper school.