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Old 08-06-2011, 06:35 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,670,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unusualfire View Post
^Im not sure where you get your info from. Washington and Baltimore were never the same MSA. Cincinnati and Dayton is the same distance as Portland and Salem, but the biggest difference is the Cincinnati/Dayton corridor is much much more developed. The development between the Cincinnati and Dayton are is mostly west of I-75 which you can't see driving the highway. Take a look at the new 2010 census tracts and check out the population densities.

Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com
The only people who don't understand the seemless link the two cities now have are probably people who don't leave a 6-mile radius of their homes. Unfortunately, I know quite a few of these people in the Miami Valley.

The Miami-Erie Canal ... puh-lease
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:43 PM
 
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baltimore and washington were the same msa at one time... and the seamless development between cincy and dayton ? middletown and hamilton are decaying cities almost all of butler counties growth is in the west chester area.having lived in centerville and cincinnati ..no one around me at any time considered cincy and dayton the same.
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,389 posts, read 3,731,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet_kinkaid View Post
and the seamless development between cincy and dayton ? middletown and hamilton are decaying cities almost all of butler counties growth is in the west chester area.
Middletown and Hamilton are decaying cities? I think not. While it's true that I-75 gradually sucked the life out of the two old downtowns (as commerce moved closer and closer to the expressway), these cities are nevertheless very much alive and trying to reinvent themselves. Admittedly, the losses in the automobile and steel industries decades ago devastated the entire region, but they didn't deliver any knockout blow.

So you lived in both Centerville and Cincinnati, and the people you talked to don't sense the impending, inevitable merger, eh? Must be a totally different group than I talk to. Here in Franklin and Springboro, many of the residents routinely travel either to Dayton or Cincy for employment, shopping, or entertainment--and they feel a part of both metros. In the local supermarket, the "Enquirer" always sells out first--and not because there aren't ample copies. People here are just learning to utilize the new I-75 Austin Rd. interchange that has helped drive commercial development even more between the two largest cities. Oh--and several of my former work-buddies (and their wives) always drive down across the Brent Spence Bridge every two weeks to buy cigarettes, and then party. Yes, trivia, I know--but these examples point to the emerging lifestyles, chet_kinkaid, in "CIN-DAY" (or do you prefer "CIN-TON"?).
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Old 08-08-2011, 07:08 AM
 
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Default Newcomer's Perspective

I don't know anything about what it takes to merge cities into an "MSA", other than what I've read here, but as a relative newcomer untainted by 'feelings' over the matter, these are just a few of my 'here and now' unbiased observations.

My husband and I travel to Cincinnati for entertainment and or shopping (Museum, games, Jungle Jim's and Costco) at least one a month. The trip feels like nothing.

When we meet up with friends at Dayton's local festivals and at Theatre productions, they bring friends from Cinci with them. Specifically to The Hispanic Festival, City Folk, and The Lion King. Also, we know a couple from Cinci who come to shop at The Greene and Dorothy Lane Market once in a while.

Having lived in many different places, I DO feel I-75 from Cinci to Dayton is pretty developed and it makes the 42 minute trip from my house seem to go by quickly.

My child's teacher had two children living in Springboro because they both worked in Cinci, but wanted to be close to their parents who live in Centerville.

My husband works with a man who lives in Cinci because his wife works over there. She hates to commute; he doesn't mind it so they chose Cinci.

Again, I'm not syaing they should be an MSA, but before I knew this debate existed, my view, from the time I visited for the first time, was that they were pretty blended. Small expamples you might say, but I'm just one person.

Last edited by moved_enough; 08-08-2011 at 07:19 AM.. Reason: remembered a small fact
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati(Silverton)
1,578 posts, read 2,314,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet_kinkaid View Post
baltimore and washington were the same msa at one time... and the seamless development between cincy and dayton ? middletown and hamilton are decaying cities almost all of butler counties growth is in the west chester area.having lived in centerville and cincinnati ..no one around me at any time considered cincy and dayton the same.
I don't know where you got your facts from, but Dc and Baltimore were always separate MSA's before they became a consolidated statistical area in the early 2000's.
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Old 08-13-2011, 11:50 PM
 
8 posts, read 8,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
The only people who don't understand the seemless link the two cities now have are probably people who don't leave a 6-mile radius of their homes. Unfortunately, I know quite a few of these people in the Miami Valley.

The Miami-Erie Canal ... puh-lease
Exactly!

Regardless of what designation the U.S. government decides, the growth between the two cities is undeniable. They are similar to Dallas-Fort Worth except that Dayton and Cincy are 55 miles apart vs only 35 for Dallas and Fort Worth. They also don't really rely on each other for very much, they both have their own namesake universities, hospitals, museums, airports, rivers, etc. They are two distinct cities growing together due to urban sprawl development and won't be twin cities as mentioned by the thread title. Dayton is the Gem City and Cincinnati is the Queen City, making Dayton the brightest jewel in the Queen's crown.
There isn't much undeveloped land remaining between the two cities and what remains is either currently being developed or slated for development in the near future. All one has to do is drive I-75 and you can't miss the construction.

I have heard conversations in the past about future planners already foreseeing the Cincinnati and Columbus Metros merging in a similar manner, although it probably won't be in our lifetime, depending on your age, but someone has to plan for the future. Many people in the 40's realized what was happening along I-75 and many people today realize what will happen along I-71, I just wish I could live long enough to see it happen, who knows what it will look like 70 years from now when people are referring to the 40's as the 2040's vs the 1940's we do today. It would also be interesting to track property transfers along I-71, as I suspect some companies already know what's coming.
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Old 08-14-2011, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,800 posts, read 12,852,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFromGeorgia View Post
Exactly!

Regardless of what designation the U.S. government decides, the growth between the two cities is undeniable. They are similar to Dallas-Fort Worth except that Dayton and Cincy are 55 miles apart vs only 35 for Dallas and Fort Worth. They also don't really rely on each other for very much, they both have their own namesake universities, hospitals, museums, airports, rivers, etc. They are two distinct cities growing together due to urban sprawl development and won't be twin cities as mentioned by the thread title. Dayton is the Gem City and Cincinnati is the Queen City, making Dayton the brightest jewel in the Queen's crown.
There isn't much undeveloped land remaining between the two cities and what remains is either currently being developed or slated for development in the near future. All one has to do is drive I-75 and you can't miss the construction.

I have heard conversations in the past about future planners already foreseeing the Cincinnati and Columbus Metros merging in a similar manner, although it probably won't be in our lifetime, depending on your age, but someone has to plan for the future. Many people in the 40's realized what was happening along I-75 and many people today realize what will happen along I-71, I just wish I could live long enough to see it happen, who knows what it will look like 70 years from now when people are referring to the 40's as the 2040's vs the 1940's we do today. It would also be interesting to track property transfers along I-71, as I suspect some companies already know what's coming.
.

I hope to never see Cincy and Columbus merge, just because that would take incredible amounts of sprawl, which is a HUGE waste of resources and would indicate we have learned nothing as a population. Anyone advocating sprawl to connect cities (I'm looking at you Dayon-Cincinnati) is an advocate of terrible growth planning.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:25 PM
 
8 posts, read 8,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
.

I hope to never see Cincy and Columbus merge, just because that would take incredible amounts of sprawl, which is a HUGE waste of resources and would indicate we have learned nothing as a population. Anyone advocating sprawl to connect cities (I'm looking at you Dayon-Cincinnati) is an advocate of terrible growth planning.
I don't think the cities are advocates, it's pushed by developers and encouraged by suburban Townships who are looking for their piece of the pie, as if they can become a major city. When Westchester or Deerfield Township start building dense highrise office developments instead of 'town squares' and 'lifestyle centers' it would offer a glimmer of hope, but until then...

Also, when you have people who have only lived in those areas for a few years already complaining about development and protesting current construction that was approved before their home was built, that says a lot about the people who live there. They all think they should be the last ones to move in and construction should stop, it's a never ending cycle that will only end when Cincinnati suburbs are encroaching the Columbus Metro, vise versa. The race to the furthest suburb is on, and I get the feeling some of these folk have no problem driving to the furthest city, it's part of the suburban culture, keeping up with the Joneses, if you will.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,389 posts, read 3,731,528 times
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Some 10 yrs. ago (if my recollection is accurate) there was brief speculation about building a huge regional airport in Greene County south of Jamestown. (Whether this was some private developer's fantasy or part of a larger scheme, I don't remember.) Today, such an undertaking seems to make sense as a business magnet for the entire Columbus-Dayton-Cincinnati metro regions. Such an airport might become what CVG could/would/should have been before the Delta/Northwestern merger ripped the guts out of it by funneling flights to Detroit. (Anyway, the NKY location for CVG was hardly the best one for Cincy, considering that decades ago Blue Ash Airport in the suburban NE was the logical contender for such expansion.) Just a thought--and certainly not a new one. All of us need the business.
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:39 PM
 
8 posts, read 14,346 times
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1. Recognising that there is a lot of development between Cinci and Dayton does not mean one is advocating the sprawl. Neither is traveling between the cities to take advantage of the cool things each has to offer. I'm sure both cities appreciate the out of town business.

2.I would LOVE to see Downtown Dayton realize its huge potential. Anyone who reads through Dayton posts will find a few people who originally wanted to live downtown and be part of its revival, but had to move to suburbia because of schools. Not because they advocate sprawl or becasue they want to "keep up with the Joneses".

3. Many people wish things were different (good schools in the cities, businesses that really care about their communities and re-purpose old buildings instead of running off to build in the next 'hot' location), but they're just not. For now.
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