Cincy Dayton to be twin cities? (Cincinnati: construction, live, about)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Crew Chief

Um...railroad rights of way don't require maintenance?

Read again. Here is what I said:

1. The 3-C was estimated to cost about $17 million a year in maintenance

2. About 3 miles in highway are getting rebuilt in Columbus for an initial cost of $1.6 billion. And this doesn't include maintenance costs after the project is complete.

3. The highway project money would've paid for the maintenace of 3-C for about 94 years.

4. Why is it okay to subsidize one at huge amounts of money, but not another for much less? Isn't this why Kasich turned down the 3-C money, since he (and apparently many in the GOP) believe public transit is a waste of money? Why aren't roads when they cost even more?

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Read again. Here is what I said:

1. The 3-C was estimated to cost about $17 million a year in maintenance

2. About 3 miles in highway are getting rebuilt in Columbus for an initial cost of $1.6 billion. And this doesn't include maintenance costs after the project is complete.

3. The highway project money would've paid for the maintenace of 3-C for about 94 years.

4. Why is it okay to subsidize one at huge amounts of money, but not another for much less? Isn't this why Kasich turned down the 3-C money, since he (and apparently many in the GOP) believe public transit is a waste of money? Why aren't roads when they cost even more?

Jbcmh81, I REALLY am on your side when it comes to mass transit. I'd use it if they could afford to build it. The problem is that we can't get people (except the minority of us Enlightened Ones and those that have no other choice) to ride buses. Considering our current budgetary problems, We REALLY don't have money to spend on mass transit. And we have roads & bridges that SORELY need maintenance and upgrade. Heck, this trucker would LOVE to see viable infrastruture for intermodal and passenger rail. As well as local light rail & trams. But, at my stage of the game, I just don't see how we can afford it. Sigh...

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Crew Chief

Jbcmh81, I REALLY am on your side when it comes to mass transit. I'd use it if they could afford to build it. The problem is that we can't get people (except the minority of us Enlightened Ones and those that have no other choice) to ride buses. Considering our current budgetary problems, We REALLY don't have money to spend on mass transit. And we have roads & bridges that SORELY need maintenance and upgrade. Heck, this trucker would LOVE to see viable infrastruture for intermodal and passenger rail. As well as local light rail & trams. But, at my stage of the game, I just don't see how we can afford it. Sigh...

I honestly think that people aren't against mass transit, per se, they just don't see it as viable for themselves. The problem here in the US for many people is that there is a stigma with riding buses and trains, etc. People view it as something only poor people do, and I don't think we do enough to promote them as a viable alternative. However, where it becomes successful are large cities where highways are congested... and when gas prices go up. I know that bus ridership in Columbus is at some of its highest levels in years, and with the overall population going nowhere but up, that demand is going to grow.

And this all goes back to the money issue. It's not that we don't have the money, it's that we spend just about all transportation money available almost exclusively on roads. Our society is built on cars, and until we collectively demand something different, that's the way it will stay.

[unusualfire]

No they will not be twin cities. Dallas-Ft worth, Seattle-Tacoma, Orlando-Daytona or Washington-Baltimore are not twin cities.

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I honestly think that people aren't against mass transit, per se, they just don't see it as viable for themselves. The problem here in the US for many people is that there is a stigma with riding buses and trains, etc. People view it as something only poor people do, and I don't think we do enough to promote them as a viable alternative. However, where it becomes successful are large cities where highways are congested... and when gas prices go up. I know that bus ridership in Columbus is at some of its highest levels in years, and with the overall population going nowhere but up, that demand is going to grow.

And this all goes back to the money issue. It's not that we don't have the money, it's that we spend just about all transportation money available almost exclusively on roads. Our society is built on cars, and until we collectively demand something different, that's the way it will stay.

As selfish as it may sound (I'm a trucker), we truly need to spend a LOT more money on road infrastructure before we allow ourselves the luxury of more mass transit expenditures. People and freight (for the most part) move on roads, so that's where we need to spend the money. We could move a LOT more people with busses that are cheaper than rail transport. But, again, we can't even get people to ride busses enough to even make them (sort of) viable. Plenty of commuters use trains in the Northeast. But they have a much larger population density. I eventually see Ohio as being a LOT more densely populated than it is now. And I know we'll someday need the rail infrastructure that the Northeast has now. And, yes, it would be cheaper to take "baby steps" to build such a system. But, Jbcmh81, I just do not know where we could possibly get the money from. The Brent Spence is LONG overdue replacement. I-70 needs to be at LEAST thre lanes from IN to PA. I-75 should be at LEAST, three lanes from the Ohio River to Toledo. But I have no idea how we'll even fund that...

[nickolaseposter]

Lets get real! No one in Ohio likes the semis on the highway! Almost all of the incidents where I nearly got into an accident was with a SEMI on the HIGHWAY. When it comes to shipping, I think rail should be improved. Dramatically. Having a light rail will be important, too. Why is it everyone in Ohio has this attitude that Ohio CAN'T do something? That is the attitude that is causing this state to fail. There is nothing about politics that will save us. But a can do attitude will. Btw....I would ride a light rail system because I have so many friends in Columbus and Cleveland and Cincy and I live in Dayton!

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by nickolaseposter

Lets get real! No one in Ohio likes the semis on the highway! Almost all of the incidents where I nearly got into an accident was with a SEMI on the HIGHWAY. When it comes to shipping, I think rail should be improved. Dramatically. Having a light rail will be important, too. Why is it everyone in Ohio has this attitude that Ohio CAN'T do something? That is the attitude that is causing this state to fail. There is nothing about politics that will save us. But a can do attitude will. Btw....I would ride a light rail system because I have so many friends in Columbus and Cleveland and Cincy and I live in Dayton!

!. Granted, many aren't fond of big trucks on the highway. But thinking people understand that everything they eat, wear or touch is brought to them by a semi.

2. If you have frequent "close encounters" with big trucks, maybe you should find out more about sharing the road with them safely.

3. And who's gonna pay for the rail expansion & upgrade when we already have the highway infrastructure. There's a fair amount of intermodal already. But ultimately, everything must do the "last mile" to the store in a truck. Or would you pay for and be willing to endure railroad tracks leading to every retail store in America. If you think it takes to long to get a big truck from 0-65 mph, wait 'til you hafta sit at rail crossings everywhere you go...

4. Most Ohioans have a "can do" attitude. What we don't have enough of is MONEY.

[xnyer]

Originally Posted by SCC Grad 2011

There was talk of this years ago. Heck, with the suburbs touching each other's demo. population area, why not? We have DFW, Seattle-Tacoma, Minneapolis/St. Paul, etc

Just for fun, check out mid 20th Century visionary R. Buckminster Fuller. Along with inventing the Geodesic Dome, and the Dymaxion automobile, he foresaw the development of the two "megalopoli" of "Bosnywash" (Boston to Washington, DC) and "Chicapitts" (Chicago to Pittsburgh). He sort of hit the nail on the head so to speak. To me, it's getting more and more to resemble the street scenes from "Soylent Green" where 40 million people lived in Manhattan and the last tree around was in a plastic enclosure in the middle of Central Park. If I remember the movie correctly, you had to pay admission to enter and breathe fresh air. The stress of modern day urban living, technology driven work and just plain old fashion traffic and sprawl is destroying our humanity, in my opinion.

[cali3448893]

Originally Posted by 313 TUxedo

There is some overlap of the TV stations' coverage - for those who actually live between the metros, or those elsewhere who put a good antenna on the roof - but the Dayton and Cincinnati markets are not one market, as is DFW, SF/Oak or MSP

NBC 2 (51) Dayton AND 5 (35) Cincy
CBS 7 (41) Dayton AND 12 Cincy
ABC 22 (51) Dayton AND 9 (22) Cincy
Fox 45 (30) Dayton AND 19 (29) Cincy
PBS 16 Dayton AND 48 (34) Cincy

A historical note on this is that one TV station owner in Fort Worth was hoping to keep FW and Dallas separate as far as television is concerned. They wanted to keep their station as a Fort Worth station and not move its transmitter. This was problematic for their network as their signal was fairly weak in Dallas and thus prone to interference. When it became clear that the network could sign up another VHF station to serve as the affiliate for both cities, and that the network would drop the FW station if they did - the FW station agreed to move their transmitter to Cedar Hill with everybody else.

Its true i live in west chester between dayton and cincinnati and i can hear dayton and cincinnati rap stations clearly and i can here all those top 40 stations too. I can also here the rnb stations. This just shows how close cincinnati is too dayton.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by jonathancalderon71

Its true i live in west chester between dayton and cincinnati and i can hear dayton and cincinnati rap stations clearly

I'm so sorry.

This just shows how close cincinnati is too dayton.

Cincinnati is not too Dayton. If anything, Dayton is too Cincinnati.