U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Dayton
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 07-02-2011, 12:12 PM
 
4 posts, read 9,941 times
Reputation: 10

Advertisements

There was talk of this years ago. Heck, with the suburbs touching each other's demo. population area, why not? We have DFW, Seattle-Tacoma, Minneapolis/St. Paul, etc
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-02-2011, 11:23 PM
 
602 posts, read 1,073,492 times
Reputation: 476
I don't see it truly happening anytime soon. D/FW are both far larger than Dayton/Cincy and are closer to each other. and M/SP actually border each other.

This is not to say that Dayton and Cincy do not influence each other, they already do, just like the "Detredo" area, with Toledo still a metro of its own but undeniably under the influence of Detroit.

The one barrier to a Cin-Day metroplex today is that both cities are shrinking.

Gasoline prices also are a limiting factor. When gas was $ 1.20/gal, it have have made sense for someone in Dayton to court business in/from Cincinnati - at $ 4.00, it is not necessarily profitable. This brings us back to "Detredo" - 13 years ago, when suburban Detroit housing became downright unaffordable, some were looking at the North edge of Toledo as "the next suburb". Now, the commute is expensive and Detroit area homes are cheap (if you can get a loan).
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2011, 12:25 AM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,653,522 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313 TUxedo View Post
I don't see it truly happening anytime soon. D/FW are both far larger than Dayton/Cincy and are closer to each other. and M/SP actually border each other.

This is not to say that Dayton and Cincy do not influence each other, they already do, just like the "Detredo" area, with Toledo still a metro of its own but undeniably under the influence of Detroit.

The one barrier to a Cin-Day metroplex today is that both cities are shrinking.

Gasoline prices also are a limiting factor. When gas was $ 1.20/gal, it have have made sense for someone in Dayton to court business in/from Cincinnati - at $ 4.00, it is not necessarily profitable. This brings us back to "Detredo" - 13 years ago, when suburban Detroit housing became downright unaffordable, some were looking at the North edge of Toledo as "the next suburb". Now, the commute is expensive and Detroit area homes are cheap (if you can get a loan).
The Cincinnati metro is not shrinking and is the largest in the state. Hopefully the cities themselves can reverse the population loss trend from the last census and it's possible that Cincinnati already has. Dayton has plenty of potential to bounce back also, but the city sorely needs some new investment and high-tech jobs to replace the manufacturing that likely won't ever return. The NCR loss really stung, and NASA's misguided decision not to bring a space shuttle to Wright Patterson literally cost the Miami Valley millions of dollars in annual tourism revenue. But there are definite bright spots: UD is a tremendous gem and plays a large role in the city's present and future; downtown Dayton has seen some serious investment in recent years and isn't as bleak as it once was (Schuster Center, Dragons sellouts, the riverscape area); and the Greene is a regional destination that makes Dayton more attractive to outsiders.

It's highly likely that Cincinnati and Dayton will be considered one metroplex in the next census, giving it more than 3 million people and far greater clout than it currently has. There's absolutely no doubt that the two cities have grown together over the past two decades. At this point, it's far easier for Centerville and Springboro residents/commuters to get to Mason and West Chester than, say, Huber Heights or Englewood. And increasing numbers of people in what has traditionally been considered "south Dayton" work in the Cincinnati area.

The one thing that's hampering a complete integration is the lack of viable public transportation. There absolutely has to eventually be some sort of passenger rail link between Cincinnati and Dayton for the area to ever reach its true potential. Unfortunately, we know the fate of the 3C passenger rail line that the governor torpedoed. And I-75 is an absolute nightmare from Tipp City to south of Florence. That debacle (including the outdated Brent Spence Bridge in Cincy and the horrendous, always-under-construction stretch in Dayton) certainly doesn't help the region at all in the eyes of frustrated visitors or passers-through.

Another thing that would really link the two cities in a way that Dallas and Fort Worth are would be a joint airport, but that's pie in the sky for the foreseeable future. The size, influence and connections at a CIN-DAY joint airport (CND?) located somewhere around Middletown or Monroe would be far greater than the separate, modest airport each city has now.

The potential is certainly there and there's a ton of it. Hopefully our local leaders throughout the region realize the true benefits of working together and thinking together.

Last edited by abr7rmj; 07-03-2011 at 12:39 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2011, 12:28 AM
 
368 posts, read 518,202 times
Reputation: 333
dayton is 54 miles from cincinnati..and likethe previous poster said.montgomery county isnt growing...springfield and northeast like fairborn is closer to columbus anyway...dayton is its own city with a metro population of around 1 million ppl..dayton has its own identity and lumping 2 metros with no/low growth wont make it better for either city.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2011, 09:39 AM
 
Location: ATLANTA
200 posts, read 379,284 times
Reputation: 105
It would be in the best interest of the cities to join together. But as previous posters have stated. The metro areas are shrinking or growing slowly. However, Bulter county seems to be growing Mason, Ohio and Springboro are growing rather rapidly for Ohio and they are both between Cincy and DYT.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2011, 02:11 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,653,522 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet_kinkaid View Post
dayton is 54 miles from cincinnati..and likethe previous poster said.montgomery county isnt growing...springfield and northeast like fairborn is closer to columbus anyway...dayton is its own city with a metro population of around 1 million ppl..dayton has its own identity and lumping 2 metros with no/low growth wont make it better for either city.
This is incorrect.

Dayton and Cincinnati, if you go Fountain Square to Courthouse Square, are 50 miles, not 54. For comparison, downtown Dallas is 35 miles from downtown Fort Worth. As for Columbus, forget it ... it's 75 miles from downtown Dayton (Springfield isn't relevant to this discussion) with miles and miles of undeveloped farmland in between. And who says downtown-to-downtown distances are the deciding factor in all of this anyway? Already, Mason and West Chester are more convenient to Springboro and parts of Centerville than a lot of Dayton, Englewood, Trotwood, etc. The interaction is already high and only increasing. Dayton and Cincinnati are already touching and a drive between the two downtowns on I-75 shows essentially uninterrupted and increasing development.

And there are plenty of other everyday Cincinnati-Dayton interactions that just don't exist for Dayton with Columbus (overlapping radio/TV stations, local restaurants such as Graeters, Larosa's, Dewey's and Skyline, the Reds, Sinclair expanding to northern Cincy, etc.)

It's almost a certainty that Cincinnati and Dayton will be considered a single MSA in the next census, and that's a good thing for the region. Columbus won't ever be part of that equation.

Last edited by abr7rmj; 07-03-2011 at 02:20 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2011, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Columbus,Ohio
1,014 posts, read 3,025,909 times
Reputation: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCC Grad 2011 View Post
There was talk of this years ago. Heck, with the suburbs touching each other's demo. population area, why not? We have DFW, Seattle-Tacoma, Minneapolis/St. Paul, etc
Also add San Francisco-Oakland to the list.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2011, 05:09 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,653,522 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by otters21 View Post
Also add San Francisco-Oakland to the list.
Tampa-St. Pete
DC-Baltimore
Cleveland-Akron

And, while they're not necessarily two cities, Reno-Tahoe interact in much the same way as the others.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2011, 11:31 PM
 
368 posts, read 518,202 times
Reputation: 333
there is no chance that cincinnati and dayton will ever be part of the same msa.the definition of an msa by the census is derived using a sophisticated formula involving a city of dominant influence and the surrounding areas that show commute patterns etc..for montgomery county to be included in the cincinnati msa there would have to be in the neighborhood of 75% of the workforce traveling to hamilton county for employment.and continuous built up areas have no bearing whatsoever in defining msa and csa..the realityis that both cities need to find a way to become prosperous again ,no gerrymandering of metro areas will be taken seriously anyway by the business community..there is a defined amount of people living within a certain radius of both cincinnati and dayton and the farther you go out from a defined center like downtown cincinnati the less relevant any metro area becomes..how is someone living in troy part of the same metro area as someone in northern kentucky??
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-04-2011, 11:47 AM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,653,522 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet_kinkaid View Post
there is no chance that cincinnati and dayton will ever be part of the same msa.the definition of an msa by the census is derived using a sophisticated formula involving a city of dominant influence and the surrounding areas that show commute patterns etc..for montgomery county to be included in the cincinnati msa there would have to be in the neighborhood of 75% of the workforce traveling to hamilton county for employment.and continuous built up areas have no bearing whatsoever in defining msa and csa..the realityis that both cities need to find a way to become prosperous again ,no gerrymandering of metro areas will be taken seriously anyway by the business community..there is a defined amount of people living within a certain radius of both cincinnati and dayton and the farther you go out from a defined center like downtown cincinnati the less relevant any metro area becomes..how is someone living in troy part of the same metro area as someone in northern kentucky??
The same way that someone living in West Palm Beach is in the same MSA as Homestead (Miami) despite being 89 miles apart. How about the 84 miles from Oxnard to Newport Beach (Los Angeles MSA)? Plano to Fort Worth (51 miles, Dallas MSA); Tallmadge to Lorain (62 miles, Cleveland-Akron MSA).

Really, there's no chance you will be right with your "no chance" prediction for a combined Cincinnati-Dayton MSA. Sorry ...

From the Cincinnati Enquirer:

"Official recognition of Cincinnati and Dayton as one entity may happen around 2013 when, experts say, the Cincinnati-Middletown and Dayton Metropolitan Statistical Areas observed by the federal government could be merged into one, bigger "metroplex" similar to Dallas-Fort Worth or Baltimore-Washington, D.C."

Cinton? Daynati? We're one city now | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Dayton
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top