Dayton and the Gay Community (Oregon, Englewood: apartments, lofts, crime rate)

[nickolaseposter]

I would first like to say I am biased in some ways as a gay person but I hope everyone reading this can understand I'd like to look at this in a professional perspective...

A lot of people that don't come downtown or frequent the nightlife downtown might be unaware that downtown does have a gay district. It's in it's beginning stages but let me give you some back story facts.

In 1892 The Stage Door, a once called "musical" bar that later became an openly gay bar opened above the Victoria Theater. It moved in 1940 to its current location on Jefferson St.

In 1978 The Right Corner opened on the corner of Jefferson and 3rd.

THEN, after many gay bars over the years existed around the city, former 1470s West moved next door to the Stage Door on Jefferson in the 90s and in 2006 was remodeled and revamped into Club Masque which is now the most popular gay bar in Dayton.

In 2007 Aquarius opened on the same block.

In 2007 MJ's Cafe & Dance opened as well.

Recently, other bars that aren't just gay but "LGBT Friendly" or are even gay owned like Vault, Remixx Lounge, and Rocket Lounge have opened on the same block.

On this block are eight nightlife options that are LGBT Friendly/ Gay bars.

Formerly, no one has looked into making this a gayborhood, which is what urban planners and developers like to call an area that is frequented and lived in by an unusual amount of gay people. But in the past year, we've seen some shifts towards this area becoming a neighborhood an not just a rainbow bar crawl.
For example, the St. Clair Lofts now work with the HRC as an equal opportunity housing option (because in the state of Ohio it is still legal to evict someone on the grounds of being gay) in result of how many gay couples they noticed living in their building.
Two clothing stores also have joined the neighborhood including Clash and Hangar18. Having personally chatted with the owners of these stores, they both informed me their main reason in moving by gay bars is because they know the gay identity will lead the neighborhood towards more development around them.
Also, within the past year, an LGBT memorial was placed in Cooper Park which borders the area.
John Morton Studios, a popular local photography company that's known for their unique style with graphics moved its studio and office from Englewood to this neighborhood.
Litehouse Townhomes which are modern row houses along with Patterson Park row houses are being built and sold out as we speak, and by the way, the Litehouse Townhomes are distinctively rainbow themed.
Also the neighborhood is home to The Neon, just bordering the Oregon District. The Neon is gay owned and they recently lit up the bordering parking garage with a cool rainbow light show at night.

SO why are things changing?? This neighborhood is Definitely not pretty...many of the sidewalks are torn up, there are empty buildings, but it seems to be that things are beginning to creep up around the area.
OUT Magazine mentioned he neighborhood in last months edition even saying that it was Dayton's Fruit Loop, a local term the gay community has pegged the district.
If things are beginning to develop, naturally, what are your thoughts about this? Do you think this could work? Do you think people are on to something and want to take advantage of a possible gay district? I'd like to hear opinions!!!!

[Rathagos]

Maybe Dayton isn't the place I want to move to with my family after all. I support different strokes for different folks, but this lifestyle is one I've just never preferred to be around voluntarily. This type of thing is why I moved from my home state of California, joined the Navy at 17, and have never been back in nearly 30 years. I was looking at potentially transferring to a job there, but now will reconsider.

I know that this isn't the type of post you were hoping for, Nickolaseposter, but I'm sure there will be more supportive posts from people around the Dayton area. Best of luck to you!!

~ Rath

[nickolaseposter]

I can assure you Dayton celebrates all walks of life. Differences are important and the gay community has always embraced diversity. That's why our flag is rainbow. Respectfully, I will say this is only a small part of Dayton and we still maintain Midwest values. I hope you are not discouraged, and Dayton is a great town with great folks! I hope you do respect though that wherever you go you will always have gay people in your community. That's unavoidable.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by nickolaseposter

I can assure you Dayton celebrates all walks of life. Differences are important and the gay community has always embraced diversity. That's why our flag is rainbow. Respectfully, I will say this is only a small part of Dayton and we still maintain Midwest values. I hope you are not discouraged, and Dayton is a great town with great folks! I hope you do respect though that wherever you go you will always have gay people in your community. That's unavoidable.

I sort of hope that he is discouraged. Midwest values should and often do include support for the LGBT community.

[CarpathianPeasant]

I sincerely believe there are many, many, MANY people who are identified as or claim to be gay (etc.) who are not so. There are practical realities in life that cause the identity, often rooted in gossip. Example:

Two people (man and woman) age 20 marry. Five years and two babies later they go to a class re-union of sorts where 30 people show up 24 of whom are married. Two of the same sex who were friends in school mention they took an apartment together as they both figured it was time to get out of the family nest. Right there the eyebrows will go up. And, that's a mild case.

The first reality of life is that it is neither cheap nor easy nor particularly safe to live alone. If there's no one around that someone would like to marry, the alternatives are living with a family member (which also causes talk) or friend(s) of the same sex or limiting oneself to something like a high rise full of small and expensive apartments.

The second reality of life is that while there's nothing wrong with being a single individual, people do like to do things in the company of others, some more so than others. No one knows all there is to know or sees all there is to see -- it takes two (sometimes three) people to get a better grasp of things. And just have two men (men more so than women) together in a restaurant in the evening and again there will be raised eyebrows.

Of course, there are things much deeper than that. And, I'm not saying there is no such thing.

[Ohioan58]

Originally Posted by Rathagos

Maybe Dayton isn't the place I want to move to with my family after all.

Oh, no, teh gay is coming. What a typical City-Data prejudice.

The worse problems in Dayton by far are: blight, ignorance, apathy, a violent underclass culture, drugs, prostitution, meth, and joblessness.

Oh, and not to forget classic Dayton insularity, local stupidity and the whole irritating "angry Appalachian thing gone bad" culture.

If you choose to not move to Dayton, the far smarter reasons not to do so, and reasons that could be properly respected, would be these things. To avoid gays as a sort of blight is quite stupid.

Dayton is a hellhole of poor economic prospects specifically due to its lack of embrace of diversity over the years. That drives out thinkers and creative types.

This is all for the good, IMO.

[Rathagos]

Originally Posted by nickolaseposter

I can assure you Dayton celebrates all walks of life. Differences are important and the gay community has always embraced diversity. That's why our flag is rainbow. Respectfully, I will say this is only a small part of Dayton and we still maintain Midwest values. I hope you are not discouraged, and Dayton is a great town with great folks! I hope you do respect though that wherever you go you will always have gay people in your community. That's unavoidable.

Thanks for your mature reply. Contrary to other ignorant posters in City Data (I'll get to them shortly after this), it's a personal thing, not a name-labeling thing.

Being from San Francisco, I have been around the LGBT community all my young adult life... it's just simply that I don't agree with the lifestyle. Not saying anyone is smarter or dumber, richer or poorer, a better neighbor or not. Simply, as one has the right to support that lifestyle, I have the right not to.

I also believe I wished you well in the hopes that you can raise a community as you wish to from the ashes of what already exists. I hope that community can become the pinnacle of what you hope it can be. I just choose to not be part of it... not wish it ill or tear it down.

Good luck (again) to you in your endeavors!

[Rathagos]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

Oh, no, teh gay is coming. What a typical City-Data prejudice.

The worse problems in Dayton by far are: blight, ignorance, apathy, a violent underclass culture, drugs, prostitution, meth, and joblessness.

Oh, and not to forget classic Dayton insularity, local stupidity and the whole irritating "angry Appalachian thing gone bad" culture.

If you choose to not move to Dayton, the far smarter reasons not to do so, and reasons that could be properly respected, would be these things. To avoid gays as a sort of blight is quite stupid.

Dayton is a hellhole of poor economic prospects specifically due to its lack of embrace of diversity over the years. That drives out thinkers and creative types.

This is all for the good, IMO.

Oh no, the "name-caller" is coming!!

What an ignorant way to deal with any post one doesn't reply with. Fortunately, I'm out of the 6th grade and name-calling doesn't bother me.

I certainly hope you don't epitomize the standard of intelligence in Dayton, sir/ma'am, for that would be another deciding factor. As I already claimed in an earlier post (one that you decided not to contribute in, maybe because no name-calling was called for), I also see that there is an extremely high crime rate in Dayton. There were other, mature, posters who were able to allay those fears.

Unfortunately, lifestyles are a choice that we are not forced to live with. As noted by the OP in his/her response to me, there is some form of at least a gay/lesbian factor in every city. It doesn't mean I have to approve or support it. It also means they don't have to give a rat's behind what my opinion is on the matter. I also don't approve of biker communities. I don't approve of many things that may or may not become a deciding factor of where I choose to settle and make my living.

There are many that do not like the traditional values of raising a family in a traditional role with traditional responsibilities. But, since that's my priority, anything that may not support that becomes a factor in my decision as well.

The unfortunate thing is that through the sophomoric response you gave (quoted above), if you even half-supported people who prefer traditional values as those who support others, you'd probably be able to build up a pretty nice community as a whole. But, since anyone who disagrees with you is displaying "City Data predjudice", I often wonder who the truly ignorant really is.

Only a fervant person looking for predjudice could turn a conversation about a developing community and one's will to participate or not in it into an "us versus them" argument. What a sad life to live.

[Rathagos]

Originally Posted by progmac

I sort of hope that he is discouraged. Midwest values should and often do include support for the LGBT community.

Too bad they are so predjudiced they don't include support for those who support traditional values as well, huh?

[Ohioan58]

Dude, gays are everywhere. I'm sure in the quaintest small towns in the Bible Belt there are practicing Satanists.

If they carve out a small district I could care less. Dayton is *not ever* going to be SF.

Again, Dayton has far worse problems than an incipient Gayborhood/Fruit Loop. Again, caused by Dayton's mediocrity and hammering down of diversity which makes it a less than stellar place for a smart person to live.

I grew up in Dayton and I have lived all around the country (including the Bay Area.) I've witnessed first hand that Dayton became a crappy place to live and its economy declined because the area rejects newness and diversity.