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Old 05-31-2012, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,204 posts, read 903,221 times
Reputation: 362

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
There's room for all types in this country. Diversity is a good thing. For everybody to have a degree devalues a degree and it goes the way of the high school diploma. Then what? Will everybody with just a bachelor's degree be "uneducated". Will people who want to "get ahead" have to at least have a graduate degree? (It's already becoming that way, but I'm illustrating my point.) Just what is the unemployment rate among recent college grads, really high? How about we (as a society) stop belittling people and improve the primary and secondary education system so that it serves students better and they actually have to *earn* a HS diploma so that it holds value and proves basic competence to employers and serves those who worked for it. Those who can't make it through? Tough. They can have the most basic jobs. Community college certificates and programs should be emphasized too, where needed. But I'm not buying everybody needing a bachelor's degree. How about our country reorient polices so that manufacturing jobs come back and actually provide jobs catering to the education of the people rather than absolutely everybody drowning themselves in student debt and taking so much time to get a degree? How about we provide these folks $15 per hour jobs so they can live humble lives and boost the middle ground between the poor and true "middle class". The market will cater to the working-class if it thrives. Contrary to what liberals seem to believe, not everybody needs to live an upper-middle class lifestyle. How about *they* stop suggesting people are too "undeducated" to get jobs and work on ensuring that even the most basic jobs with a little bit of time and effort will pay a decent wage and make for a career (fair organized labor and labor laws? can it work?). If you look to the South, where the political climate is more business friendly and more devoid of greedy unions, you'll see that an auto-manufacturing industry has been created from scratch in the past couple of decades. Foreign automakers have set up shop here! And those jobs pay well, with good benefits, without the companies being collared by greedy unions. Surely that can be replicated in other industries as well.
You're behind times. Now you need a Ph.D. in something. (Anything.)
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,204 posts, read 903,221 times
Reputation: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Just sharing my personal experiences trying to get on in the Gem City. Don't really need your interpretation of my experiences.

Are you that intuitive from just a few words on a forum post?

Or that opinionated?
Merciful heavens! If I had 300,000 views I'd be speechless at least for a while.
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,204 posts, read 903,221 times
Reputation: 362
MOKAN,

I tend to agree with your points. And, thanks for your NY Times article. Are you from the area or just expressing general opinions?
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 2,637,801 times
Reputation: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
In interacting with people, what is "uneducated"? It sounds like you didn't interact with the folks you speak of much, yet know so much about them.
Your question was rhetorical followed by your assumption.
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 2,637,801 times
Reputation: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant View Post
I'd be speechless at least for a while.
One can only hope.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,461 posts, read 2,959,559 times
Reputation: 2324
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant View Post
MOKAN,

I tend to agree with your points. And, thanks for your NY Times article. Are you from the area or just expressing general opinions?
I'm not from the Dayton area, I just happened to this thread on the front page of the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Your question was rhetorical followed by your assumption.
Yes, my question was somewhat rhetorical. But I'd still like to see you explain.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 2,637,801 times
Reputation: 913
Quote:
I found many of the locals standoffish, cliquish, and down right uneducated. Not to say that there aren't a lot of good folks around.
I quoted myself so I am not taken out of context.

standoffish, cliquish = If you are not from around here many people may not welcome you. Some of the ones that do welcome you may not when around those who do not. This what my wife and I experienced over the course of 2 years living in east Dayton. Beyond that, my statement is based on experiences and require no further explanation.

down right uneducated = many of the people I met in east Dayton couldn't form a complete sentence w/o littering it with f. bombs. I will not waste my time with further explanation. If you don't know inner city Dayton then you probably would not get what I am saying.

And by the way, I have lived all over the country and have never had such a hard time being accepted into a community as I did in Dayton.

Not to say that there aren't a lot of good folks around. = There are a lot of good people around. A lot of the folks I got to know in Dayton were good hearted, kind, hard working, and successful. They tend to be the minority when talking of Dayton proper. The Dayton region fares a lot better than it's anchor city.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:06 AM
 
Location: A voice of truth, shouted down by fools.
1,086 posts, read 1,411,540 times
Reputation: 847
I interpret the lack of degreed people in Dayton this way, and it becomes sort of a general referendum on the local economy:

A vibrant economy and culture is a positive cycle. Good jobs attract good employees, investment, new businesses form, and college graduates hang around because they see a future. An example of a virtuous cycle in operation is Silicon Valley.

A clear example of a positive cycle which has been irreparably broken is that of the local Dayton economy.

Many of Esrati.com's posts (he definitely being a Dayton booster) are about local innovators who closed shop and left town due to lack of opportunity. That mirrors my assertions about the tech economy in the region, but more generally about the overall economy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123
standoffish, cliquish = If you are not from around here many people may not welcome you. Some of the ones that do welcome you may not when around those who do not. This what my wife and I experienced over the course of 2 years living in east Dayton. Beyond that, my statement is based on experiences and require no further explanation.

down right uneducated = many of the people I met in east Dayton couldn't form a complete sentence w/o littering it with f. bombs. I will not waste my time with further explanation. If you don't know inner city Dayton then you probably would not get what I am saying.

And by the way, I have lived all over the country and have never had such a hard time being accepted into a community as I did in Dayton.
I grew up in Dayton, and I, too, have moved all over the country.

I lived around a lower keyed version of this type of behavior (I grew up in a slightly better neighborhood than East Dayton.)

Every single point is dead-on: cliques. Unfriendly and suspicious - Appalachian hill folk tendencies, I am told. Crude and uneducated and proud of it. I'll add: quick to fight, sarcastic and jaded, and rude.

One word describes the character of Daytonians in general: Barbarians.

I could add more adjectives but "barbarians" sums it up.

Last edited by Ohioan58; 06-01-2012 at 01:38 AM..
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:42 AM
 
Location: A voice of truth, shouted down by fools.
1,086 posts, read 1,411,540 times
Reputation: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
There's room for all types in this country. Diversity is a good thing. For everybody to have a degree devalues a degree and it goes the way of the high school diploma. Then what? Will everybody with just a bachelor's degree be "uneducated". Will people who want to "get ahead" have to at least have a graduate degree?
Good points.

You're going beyond the point of the NY Times article, though. Look at it more literally, as it was intended: a town like Dayton is at a competitive and strategic disadvantage because it has a lower than average count of college graduates.

College grads are builders, engineers, doctors, inventors, architects. They are the backbone of the formation of businesses.

The lack of graduates is two things to Dayton:

1) a canary in the coal mine indicating a substandard local economy and range of economic opportunities. (And in my strong opinion, it indicates a substandard quality of life in one respect: socially.)

2) it is a lack of a specific raw material needed to build a better region.
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 2,637,801 times
Reputation: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohioan58 View Post
Many of Esrati.com's posts (he definitely being a Dayton booster) are about local innovators who closed shop and left town due to lack of opportunity.
Esrati is another subject all on his own. I know him personally and think he cares about little else than promoting himself and his agendas. And I still read esrati.com from time to time and you are right on the money. Time again he has articles about innovative business oriented people leaving Dayton for greener pastures. He also exposes how stifling the city of Dayton is towards businesses. That in itself may account for so many, many businesses leaving Dayton for the nearest suburb where they don't have to deal with the city. But let me stop before I meander too far off topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohioan58 View Post
Every single point is dead-on: cliques. Unfriendly and suspicious - Appalachian hill folk tendencies, I am told. Crude and uneducated and proud of it. I'll add: quick to fight, sarcastic and jaded, and rude.

One word describes the character of Daytonians in general: Barbarians.

I could add more adjectives but "barbarians" sums it up.
I cannot disagree with one single point. I have to say that these qualities were a contributing factor in my families move to Cincinnati. We are in a neighborhood now where we are very welcome and have a network of friends who are very supportive.
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