Dayton is Undereducated - Proof (Hamilton, Xenia: power lines, house, to live)

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

@ Joe, I used to live in Linden Heights, right off of Xenia Ave at Bowen Street. LH is a nice area. Take a walk into Twin Towers and it's like a totally different world. Same with walking over to Historic Inner East. But then you have St. Anne's Hill which is a really cool area.

@MOKAN - As for Hispanics. There have been some hispanic folks moving into East Dayton over the years but it's hardly as you describe in Kansas City.

Not yet. But if the economics are ever there, they will move into Dayton en masse like they have many other places. It's alright though because they tend to do their own sort of gentrification opening up stores in vacant commercial buildings, remodeling houses, etc. Check out Dayton with these maps to see the changes in ethnicity:

Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant

Now, re-think your criticism from that viewpoint.

Ya, Dayton has a glorious past that change the world as we know it, or knew it?

But, that Dayton died long ago. As much as Dayton would like to tout it's past, and city hall does just that, their past does not excuse the shape the city is in today. And the ares in East Dayton we are talking about are majority Appalachian. These folks came out of Tenn., Kentucky, and elsewhere for manufacturing jobs. The jobs left but the Appalachians did not. They are not all bad, as noted, but a majority are as described by Ohion58, Me, and JoeFromDayton.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by MOKAN

Not yet. But if the economics are ever there, they will move into Dayton en masse like they have many other places. It's alright though because they tend to do their own sort of gentrification opening up stores in vacant commercial buildings, remodeling houses, etc. Check out Dayton with these maps to see the changes in ethnicity:

Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com

I have found Latinos to be hard working people who take care of their families and look out for their community. Having lived in LA, I developed much respect for Latinos. And I mean specifically Mexicans and neighboring countries. Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, etc are a totally different culture, though deserve respect in their own right.

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

Ya, Dayton has a glorious past that change the world as we know it, or knew it?

But, that Dayton died long ago. As much as Dayton would like to tout it's past, and city hall does just that, their past does not excuse the shape the city is in today. And the ares in East Dayton we are talking about are majority Appalachian. These folks came out of Tenn., Kentucky, and elsewhere for manufacturing jobs. The jobs left but the Appalachians did not. They are not all bad, as noted, but a majority are as described by Ohion58, Me, and JoeFromDayton.

What I mentioned was not the glorious past that changed the world.

And, I'm well aware of the "Appalachian Entry-Way" of East Dayton -- a "move up" was most often to Riverdale. Kentuckians can resent Ohioans, especially in Kentucky.

FYI:

1. If in Kentucky, it helps to say the obvious, that one is from Ohio and to specify one is NOT from Cincinnati.

2. I like hillbillies.

3. I deeply appreciate the hillbillies that like me. They are good people in ways different from Ohioans.

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Postscript: The Berlin Wall was not taken down "long ago." And, I, for one, ain't dead yet.

[Ohioan58]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

Ya, Dayton has a glorious past that change the world as we know it, or knew it?

But, that Dayton died long ago. As much as Dayton would like to tout it's past, and city hall does just that, their past does not excuse the shape the city is in today. And the ares in East Dayton we are talking about are majority Appalachian. These folks came out of Tenn., Kentucky, and elsewhere for manufacturing jobs. The jobs left but the Appalachians did not. They are not all bad, as noted, but a majority are as described by Ohion58, Me, and JoeFromDayton.

The specific thing about Dayton that is a killer business-culturally is that there isn't even a line of continuity from the old days of Paterson, Smith and Barney, etc. to the present day. There are NO local families still based in the Dayton area whose older relatives and forbears even knew of how Dayton was in its best days of the 20th century. My mother grew up in Dayton in the 20s and 30s and her stories reminded me of a little New York. She passed in the 1990s, and all I know and all people that are alive know is maybe good factory jobs in the past, or, decline.

So when boosters come up with slogans like "Dayton Patented" it amounts to quoting straight out of a history book. Nobody alive has experienced it or heard about it second or even third hand.

And the other half of that tag line "Originals Wanted" is a mockery. For me, growing up in Dayton and then returning years later to find work was a process of being smashed down and excluded for being too creative or not conforming. "Originals wanted" my azz, Dayton's social culture when I grew up there in the 60s and 70s could be summed up as = watch your mouth and shut the hell up and stay in line. Dayton has NEVER in the last 50 years been a good place for individuality or non comformity.

Dayton needs to be reinvented, not revived. Revival indicates that something is dormant awaiting awakening. That old glorious past is d-e-a-d. The only things here to be revived are buildings and houses, and they do not make a city or a culture.

And even the nearer term salad days of the mid 20th century had a dark core that lead to the present day.

[Ohioan58]

And about briars/hillbillies:

In the Dayton area they tended to metastasize into clumps of violent, cussed, suspicious, defensive, fight-loving barbarians. IMO, many of the ones that wound up in the Dayton area brought many of the negative factors and few of the positive factors of Appalachian culture.

The point is, the slurs have a basis, they didn't just come out of nowhere.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

And about briars/hillbillies:

In the Dayton area they tended to metastasize into clumps of violent, cussed, suspicious, defensive, fight-loving barbarians. IMO, many of the ones that wound up in the Dayton area brought many of the negative factors and few of the positive factors of Appalachian culture.

The point is, the slurs have a basis, they didn't just come out of nowhere.

Yep!

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

And about briars/hillbillies:

In the Dayton area they tended to metastasize into clumps of violent, cussed, suspicious, defensive, fight-loving barbarians. IMO, the ones that wound up in the Dayton area brought many of the negative factors and few of the positive factors of Appalachian culture.

The point is, the slurs have a basis, they didn't just come out of nowhere.

Sometimes. And, sometimes the contempt is merely hearsay repeated by people who think they are sophisticated but who never knew any Appalachians personally.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant

Sometimes. And, sometimes the contempt is merely hearsay repeated by people who think they are sophisticated but who never knew any Appalachians personally.

Ok, for all your pontification, I doubt you have been to Dayton recently. If not, I would love to drive you down McClain Street from Henry to Hamilton so you can see for yourself the glory of one of East Dayton's worst Appalachain ghettos. And that is one of many, I might add.

The only remaining traces of Eastern European culture on Dayton is found in Old North Dayton. Amber Rose (great restaurant I might add), Charlie's Imports, a few social clubs, etc. are all that's visible anymore. Otherwise, OND is rough as h3ll and getting worse every day.

[Ohioan58]

I love traveling into Kentucky and Tennessee and West Virginia. Never had any interpersonal problems with the natives in those states. The Dayton area is a different matter. Being away from home and in an odd context probably was a big source of stress. But as an embedded culture they didn't tend to improve much with age and time.

My mom had stories about houses in poorer parts of east Dayton being subdivided into crappy cheap sleeping rooms after WWII, to accommodate migrating factory workers. That was probably the start of the whole underclass culture thing with local hillbillies.