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Old 07-17-2012, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,471 posts, read 6,176,291 times
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Office vacancies decrease. Great news.

Report sees commercial growth in downtown Dayton
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,530 posts, read 4,992,172 times
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^^ (Let's just see what happens next...)
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
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^^ Ya, one never really knows. City Hall may announce they are relocating to Atlanta to be with NCR.
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:30 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,826,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Office vacancies decrease. Great news.

Report sees commercial growth in downtown Dayton
Hi TomJones123--

I moved to downtown Dayton last year and I was absolutely appalled at how many buildings were vacant. I sincerely hope this is the beginning of a turnaround because I had my father drop in for a visit the other day and on our way to lunch I was able to point out:

'That building is 30, maybe 40% occupied.' - 111 W. First (upon research, actually 50%)
'That building was just auctioned off.' - 33 W. First (as far as I know, empty)
'That building is empty, as far as I know. - 110 N. Main
'That one, too.' - KeyBank Tower
'That one was just sold at a sheriff's sale.' - Kettering Tower
'That building just had a sign put up that said 180,000 square feet for lease. It's only 200,000-something total.' - 40 West 4th

And on and on. I would love to see a downtown revival because quite frankly, it's a ghost town after about 6 PM on any given night. Most shops are closed by 7. Even the old man was shocked.



Now here's my policy solution:

Fact of the matter is, Dayton's 2.5% income tax and property tax rates (effectively, about 100 mills if I recall correctly) will continue to make the city unattractive to commercial/residential lessees. Everyone gives a bad rap about Dayton being 'dead', but the fact of the matter is, only the city proper is dead.

Go to all of the newly developed shopping centers/office complexes all around the metro area. Pentagon Park, Fairfield Mall, The Greene, Wilmington Pike, the Dayton Mall, and Austin Landing, off the top of my head, stick out, just from driving around.

Pentagon Park (along the right side of I-675 north just before you get to Fairfield Road), Fairfield Commons, and the Greene are all in Beavercreek. The shopping center on Wilmington Pike, you'll notice, is almost all on the left-hand side of the road. There's a reason for that: the left side of the road is all Sugarcreek Township in Greene County. The right side is within Centerville city limits, in Montgomery County, with Wilmington Pike sitting on the county line. And Austin Landing and the Dayton Mall are both in unincorporated Miami Township.

What do all of those areas have in common? No city taxes.

People from the bigger cities, especially on the Northeast, may scoff and laugh that the citizens of Dayton pay 'only' 2.5% in income taxes, but it's not a difficult decision to move your operations to the suburbs when they're only ten minutes away and save your employees thousands of dollars yearly. That's why Thompson Hine moved to Austin Landing: do you really think those highly-paid attorneys wanted to pay those taxes?

100-employee law firm to move from downtown to Austin Landing | www.daytondailynews.com


So the obvious solution would be to lower the city's income taxes and make it competitive again. Given that the city's budget is bad enough as it is, I would limit its scope - let's say lower it from 2.5% to 1.5% within a six-block radius downtown. That may do a bit to encourage investment and leases without gutting the city's budget. And heck, if tenancy picks up enough, it may actually raise the city some more money.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,898 posts, read 2,734,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post


So the obvious solution would be to lower the city's income taxes and make it competitive again. Given that the city's budget is bad enough as it is, I would limit its scope - let's say lower it from 2.5% to 1.5% within a six-block radius downtown. That may do a bit to encourage investment and leases without gutting the city's budget. And heck, if tenancy picks up enough, it may actually raise the city some more money.

...? Post more. Lots more. Any topic.
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,826,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant View Post
...? Post more. Lots more. Any topic.
Hi CarpathianPeasant--

I have gone on and on before about how taxes drive away development, but would try to avoid ruffling too many feathers before I get a chance to get established on a forum. If I had it my way, SB5 would have passed and not been messed with by the 'No on 2' people, which would give the city a good chance at renegotiating its contracts with its employees to something more in-line with today's economy. This would free up the necessary $ to be able to cut taxes and bring back some life to downtown. It's a shame to see all of these empty or near-empty buildings sit unused when there's tons of development out in the suburbs.

And I'll freely admit to joining that crowd. Disclosure: I'm a second-year student in law school, and after graduating I have absolutely no reason to remain within Dayton city limits as it stands. I'm looking to return to Northern KY, but if I'm stuck in Dayton, I'd be in Beavercreek, Bellbrook, or at least in a township - because none of them have city taxes.
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,471 posts, read 6,176,291 times
Reputation: 1303
Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Hi TomJones123--

I moved to downtown Dayton last year and I was absolutely appalled at how many buildings were vacant.
Hi. Great thoughts, and I appreciate the well thought out post.

I used to bicycle all over the city of Dayton several times a week. One of my favorite routes was to get on the bike trail on Linden Ave at the tracks in between Smithville and Woodman and meander my way around until I was downtown and then I would take the streets back to my home in Dayton's east side. I have been on just about every street and through most alleyways in downtown Dayton.

Long story short, I have never seen a higher concentration of For Lease signs as I did in downtown Dayton. I mean it was hard to turn a corner and not see one. Dayton's office vacancy rate is higher than Detroit, which is quite a feat. To make matters worse there are so, so many incentives for companies to locate their operations outside of Dayton, and you mentioned several. And don't even get me started on city hall and their outdated, business UN-friendly practices. Dayton is in real trouble. I am not even sure if they have hit rock bottom yet. They need to focus on some simple things to turn the tide. Learn how to retain existing businesses and residents, and eventually attract new business and residents. I do wonder if Dayton has begun to stabilize yet from it's population losses. Time will tell.
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,826,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
I do wonder if Dayton has begun to stabilize yet from it's population losses. Time will tell.
Hi TomJones123--

I guess I would be the bringer of bad news from the 2010 US Census which shows that the population loss shows no signs of slowing down whatsoever.

1960 262,332
1970
243,601 −7.1%
1980 193,536 −20.6%
1990
182,044 −5.9%
2000 166,179 −8.7%
2010
141,527 −14.8%


In my opinion, it's (in addition to the aforementioned taxes) because there aren't that many desirable neighborhoods left to live in. Forget about anything on the west side until those areas can get their collective acts together. South Park may be turning around, but it's hit and miss. Midtown is desolate at night. Likewise with the east side (between Keowee and Smithville). South of 35, Smithville is somewhat better, although again hit and miss, especially at night. Woodman is marginally better than Smithville; the houses around there are a bit quieter. But let's face it, it still isn't Oakwood or Beavercreek.

UD is also much more hit and miss than people would like to admit: the last time I was at the Fieldhouse on Brown Street, barely six months ago, some guy got his butt kicked in a fight, returned with a gun, and emptied it into the front of the building. Obviously, I haven't been back.

Downtown is pretty quiet, which is a relief. Old North, as far as I can tell, is mostly old manufacturing - maybe some locals can tell me if there's much in the way of housing out that way?

That doesn't leave much else within the city limits.
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,471 posts, read 6,176,291 times
Reputation: 1303
Linden Heights and Walnut Hills area alright. I used to live in Linden Heights and it was quiet for the most part.

Old North Dayton is a not a good area. There is a lot of drug activity. The only things the neighborhood has going for it are:

- Children's Hospital

- Amber Rose - excellent eastern European food

- Charlie's Imports - The best deli in Dayton. They have an excellent lunch and the best Chicago hot dogs around and an awesome beer selection.

There are some good areas on the west side. There is University Row, Princeton Heights, Cornell Heights. College Hill is alright in places.
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:40 PM
 
16,345 posts, read 17,939,949 times
Reputation: 7878
Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Hi TomJones123--

I guess I would be the bringer of bad news from the 2010 US Census which shows that the population loss shows no signs of slowing down whatsoever.

1960 262,332
1970 243,601 −7.1%
1980 193,536 −20.6%
1990 182,044 −5.9%
2000 166,179 −8.7%
2010 141,527 −14.8%


In my opinion, it's (in addition to the aforementioned taxes) because there aren't that many desirable neighborhoods left to live in. Forget about anything on the west side until those areas can get their collective acts together. South Park may be turning around, but it's hit and miss. Midtown is desolate at night. Likewise with the east side (between Keowee and Smithville). South of 35, Smithville is somewhat better, although again hit and miss, especially at night. Woodman is marginally better than Smithville; the houses around there are a bit quieter. But let's face it, it still isn't Oakwood or Beavercreek.

UD is also much more hit and miss than people would like to admit: the last time I was at the Fieldhouse on Brown Street, barely six months ago, some guy got his butt kicked in a fight, returned with a gun, and emptied it into the front of the building. Obviously, I haven't been back.

Downtown is pretty quiet, which is a relief. Old North, as far as I can tell, is mostly old manufacturing - maybe some locals can tell me if there's much in the way of housing out that way?

That doesn't leave much else within the city limits.
The city and metro registered growth since 2010, according to the census.
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