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Old 02-27-2013, 08:06 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,244 posts, read 7,138,529 times
Reputation: 3014

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Quote:
"What is it about a city that attracts "creative, white collar, transplant population"? With say Boston or San Francisco, the answer is obvious. But what about one midsized Midwestern city vs. another? No city in Ohio will ever match the cultural cachet of New England, but still, the relative success of one such city vs. another suggests that local attitudes are not irrelevant.
Most of the Midwest cities that have had job growth...presumably attracing transplants... are strong in the following (some combination of the following):

1. Strong FIRE Sector (Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate)(thinks like insurance company HQs, financial insitutions and back-offices, etc).

2. Strong PST&E (Proffessional, Scientific, Technical) sectors (engineering firms, consultancies like Battelle, etc)

3. A concentration of corporate HQs, including corporate R&D.

4. A state capital

5. The flagship state university.

Dayton isn't strong in any of these.

The area never had a unversity of distinction until the recent improvement of UD, and never grew insurance companies, and what corporate HQ presence there was here has shrunk. Essentially this was a very large version of Lima or Springfield. An oversized factory town that never developed into more than that.

Really there is NOTHING here for people to come unless they are recruited to come.

BTW, here is a good book on the fate of the Midwest, esp Middle America places like Dayton:

Caught in the Middle: America's Heartland in the Age of Globalism...by Chicago Trib reporter Richard Longworth.

Ex–Chicago Tribune correspondent Longworth (Global Squeeze) paints a bleak, evocative portrait of the Midwest's losing struggle with foreign competition and capitalist gigantism. It's a landscape of shuttered factories, desperate laid-off workers, family farms gobbled up by agribusiness, once great cities like Detroit and Cleveland now in ruins, small towns devolved into depopulated rural slums...


...and Dayton fits into that picture. There really isnt much here to actually attract people, and why would we want to since there apparently isn't enough work to go around for technical proffessionals?

 
Old 02-27-2013, 08:15 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,244 posts, read 7,138,529 times
Reputation: 3014
Quote:
Part of my job involves working with engineering-students at a local university. These aren't English majors; they're engineers. And the prevailing sentiment is that local jobs can't be found, even if the students have excellent grades. The best remedy seems to be to move away. It's not a question of downtown Dayton vs. suburbs, east-side vs west-side, Beavercreek and Centerville growing at the purported expense of everyone else. It's an issue for the entire region, if not for every small to medium city in the Midwest.
This is a very key point.

In the past this area produced stuff for export. Now it produces people for export.

That is why I think a strong K-12 + College education is so important. Kids and young adults coming up here are not going to find work here. So they have to be prepared to be competetive in a national, or even global, job market.

A strong foundational education system is absolutley the best thing local policy makers can do for the famlies who live here, to give their kids a good edge when they go out in the world to find work.

Unfortunatly, according to some studies done by Brookings, this area is slipping in that. There is a drop-off between generations. More Baby Boomers in the Dayton Metro area have college educations than do young adults in their 20s. So education attainment has been dropping between generations.

Not Good!
 
Old 02-27-2013, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,827,653 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
More Baby Boomers in the Dayton Metro area have college educations than do young adults in their 20s. So education attainment has been dropping between generations.
Hi Dayton Sux--

I've noticed this trend lately with a lot of (younger) friends I've made since I've come here. A lot of people aren't even considering college because of the cost (a year at Wright State runs in the $10,000 range if one were to live at home, and a year at UD is in the $35,000 range after all fees are counted - again, living at home).

Others wind up dropping out of even more affordable options (such as Sinclair) due to lack of money at home, family drama, or other personal issues (which often involve lack of money). Still others wind up at for-profit colleges because the tuition appears to be cheaper - of course, a couple have either dropped out or wound up with worthless certificates.

Still others are considering trade school - which isn't a bad option if they know what they're doing, but certainly not the professional/white-collar route that brings in the biggest bucks.



As far as there being "no jobs in Dayton", I would more or less agree if we're talking about the city proper - but not so much for the nicer suburbs (Centerville, Beavercreek, etc.) There's plenty of jobs out there, although demand still outstrips supply. And as a few posters have mentioned here already, when the metro area is growing only slowly, it quickly becomes a zero-sum game - Austin Landing's development (such as the movement of Thompson Hine) came at the expense of downtown.

The best development today is along the I-75 corridor - Austin Landing, Springboro, Liberty Township, Mason, West Chester. That's where the jobs are.
 
Old 03-11-2013, 06:55 PM
 
41 posts, read 62,299 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant View Post
Yours or that of Salem Avenue?
Pesant, you ask, yours or mine. What is wrong with you??? Take a good look at Salem Ave. in fact look at the entire West Side of Dayton and see the disater that has taken place. J.Price
 
Old 03-11-2013, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,471 posts, read 6,179,359 times
Reputation: 1303
Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Austin Landing, Springboro, Liberty Township, Mason, West Chester. That's where the jobs are.
You were doing alright until you crossed over into the Cincinnati metro. I totally agree that in Dayton the jobs are in the suburbs. But in the Cincinnati metro the highest concentration of jobs are in the downtown and uptown neighborhoods.

Inner-City Neighborhoods Center of Population, Economic Power in Cincinnati Region — UrbanCincy
 
Old 03-12-2013, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,827,653 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. PRICE View Post
Pesant, you ask, yours or mine. What is wrong with you??? Take a good look at Salem Ave. in fact look at the entire West Side of Dayton and see the disater that has taken place. J.Price
Hi J.PRICE--

I was talking with a guy who's lived in Westwood his whole life. He says that people there don't steal cars anymore - they steal the wheels. Because the wheels are often worth more than the cars they're attached to.

That is how far the area has sunk due to lack of jobs, opportunity, and continuing crime.

Of course, crime deters business development - a la Salem Mall, Kroger's on Gettysburg Avenue, Trotwood going downhill (closure of Cub Foods) etc. - which deters job growth. Which just leads to more poverty and crime. It's a vicious cycle.

One thing that Dayton is doing correctly is they're focusing a lot of their activity on the downtown-to-UD corridor. You've got to start somewhere if you want to turn the city around. Of course, I believe that setting up a framework for the neighborhoods to take action could work wonders (if you could get it past the Dayton City Commissioners).
 
Old 03-28-2013, 08:52 AM
 
112 posts, read 164,184 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
The Jewish community relocated into that area from the Wayne Avenue corridor. The first synagogues where downtown on Jefferson or St Clair, and on Wayne Avenue near the former Cocos location, and later one located on Wyoming (this one is still standing). The Hebrew center (sort of a community center) was next door to the Steamboat House in St Annes Hill.

I'm not sure how Jewish that northwest part of Dayton was given the community here could not have been that large, porportionally speaking, to populate all those neighborhoods. I do know Salem Avenue had a Jewish deli/bakery as late as 1970/1971, and there was a Jewish deli in Northtown shopping center when I moved here in 1988.

But yeah, good question as to that exodus (pardon the unintended pun). I think the current vacancy situation is more due to the foreclosure crisis and people just leaving town. Vacancies & board-ups are all the way up Riverside to Shoup Mill Road now.



It's a bit like the Cherokee Park area in Louisville or the Hyde Park/Gradin Road areas in Cincy, but much closer in to downtown (particularly Grafton Hill).
I think busing is what ruined these neighborhoods. Dayton View/University Row has gorgeous houses and architecture that you can get for a really great price. But will the property hold its value? So far, it hasn't. When busing happened, a lot of people flew to the suburbs. From what I gather now, the people who live in those areas are not the problem--it's the gangs and drug dealers coming into those neighborhoods--lots of robberies, crime, etc. They don't live there, but don't live too far away. Robbing houses is easy way to get drug money.
 
Old 03-28-2013, 08:55 AM
 
112 posts, read 164,184 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
There still is quite a bit of Cincy that is run down, but it doesnt have that awful vacant/desolate feel that Dayton has. The general "look" of both cities is quite different beyond that, though, due to the architecture and the ways these cities built-out.
I think that's because Cincy still has more business and industry. Dayton's industry has mostly gone. That supported the middle class and a lot of those older north Dayton neighborhoods. There was a Chrysler plant, several GM plants, Delco, Frigidare, etc. Now they're all gone. Chrysler plant was turned into a Behr paint factory and now it's gone, too. No jobs = run down neighborhoods.
 
Old 10-04-2013, 08:07 PM
 
41 posts, read 62,299 times
Reputation: 39
Default Salem Ave.`

Salem Ave . Needs lots of PRAYER, AS well as many other parts of DAYTON.
 
Old 10-04-2013, 09:50 PM
 
3,513 posts, read 5,124,978 times
Reputation: 1821
Yep


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