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Old 01-09-2013, 02:40 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
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Quote:
When was the last time you were in Cincinnati?
There still is quite a bit of Cincy that is run down, but it doesnt have that awful vacant/desolate feel that Dayton has. The general "look" of both cities is quite different beyond that, though, due to the architecture and the ways these cities built-out.

 
Old 01-09-2013, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
There still is quite a bit of Cincy that is run down, but it doesnt have that awful vacant/desolate feel that Dayton has. The general "look" of both cities is quite different beyond that, though, due to the architecture and the ways these cities built-out.
It has it's rough spots, but has made a lot of improvements. And that awful vacant/desolate feel is exactly what I am talking about. Even in areas like East Price Hill where there are a lot of vacancies. EPH has a thriving business district along Warsaw, a lot of people milling around the streets, etc. The two cities are night and day. I live in Cincy, and used to live in Dayton.
 
Old 01-09-2013, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Covington, KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
There still is quite a bit of Cincy that is run down, but it doesnt have that awful vacant/desolate feel that Dayton has. The general "look" of both cities is quite different beyond that, though, due to the architecture and the ways these cities built-out.

One reason for the "vacant/desolate feel" (no argument about whether there is or is not one) in comparison to Cincinnati is, I think, due possibly to more people (a higher percentage) of people walking in Cincinnati. Dayton drives, and not just because it's (was) a "General Motors town." The more rural an area is, the more people tend to drive (and these days use computers). I had a friend originally from Adams county who would drive her kids to the swimming pool two and half blocks from her house.

Another reason is the wide streets. Six people crossing Vine street looks like a small crowd. Put six at Third & Main and it looks almost as if no one is there.

Another thing, there are places in Cincinnati like the restaurants that are only open for breakfast and lunch, in other words when there's likely to be business.
 
Old 01-10-2013, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant View Post
One reason for the "vacant/desolate feel" (no argument about whether there is or is not one) in comparison to Cincinnati is, I think, due possibly to more people (a higher percentage) of people walking in Cincinnati. Dayton drives, and not just because it's (was) a "General Motors town." The more rural an area is, the more people tend to drive (and these days use computers). I had a friend originally from Adams county who would drive her kids to the swimming pool two and half blocks from her house.

Another reason is the wide streets. Six people crossing Vine street looks like a small crowd. Put six at Third & Main and it looks almost as if no one is there.

Another thing, there are places in Cincinnati like the restaurants that are only open for breakfast and lunch, in other words when there's likely to be business.
I am not sure the last time you were in Dayton, but I assure it's a very empty city. Even downtown Dayton, which has an office vacancy rate of around 33%, feels empty during business days and is littered with "For Lease" signs. Dayton has shrunk considerably, and it shows all around the city.

I'll agree that Cincinnati very dense compared to Dayton. But Dayton is not sprawled by any means when you get out away from Downtown into the neighborhoods.

On another note, Dayton ranks number 2 on a 5 emptiest cites list.

http://homes.yahoo.com/news/america-...ies--2012.html

Last edited by TomJones123; 01-10-2013 at 08:11 AM..
 
Old 01-11-2013, 07:42 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
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Quote:
Another reason is the wide streets. Six people crossing Vine street looks like a small crowd. Put six at Third & Main and it looks almost as if no one is there.
..yes, I agree for downtown. ANd good call about the eating out during working hours...I did a look at this and there are quite a few eateries downtown but very few stay open later.

But I was also thinking about how desolate the city is beyond downtown, with large areas of vacant land generated by industrial demolitions, housing & commercial demolitions (like what happened to Salem Avenue and is happening to Troy & Valley), and lower density development with parking in front or all around, which is pretty common in Dayton when something new goes up, and which gives the city a sort of gappy feel....really evident south of downtown, but you can see this happening all over town.

....then there are the mostly closed/vacant older neighborhood shopping areas like Tals Corner, Santa Clara, and so forth. I'm betting these places are just wating for the bulldozers to be revved up....

Quote:
But Dayton is not sprawled by any means when you get out away from Downtown into the neighborhoods.
Probably the most built-up surviving older neighborhood in Dayton is the Oregon, and it would only be equivilant to Northside, which I think is still a bit more high-density than the OD (thinking of zero or near-zero lotline housing like on Moline Street, which you find scattered around the Northside).

So yeah I think there is a lot of visuals to this. Drive around, say, Camp Washington, and maybe that Brighton Corner area (by the Mockbee lofts) and you'll see a lot of vacancy and "empty" but it doesnt feel that way due to the way those neighborhoods look...in terms of the built environment...

....and there seems to be a lot of big old factory buildings in these places that are still standing, which would have been torn down in Dayton.

Taking a look at old aeriels of Dayton you see this place was once much more cityfied.
Even in my short time here (25 years this month!) I saw a lot come down, especially old factory buildings, but also stores and such....
 
Old 01-11-2013, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
So yeah I think there is a lot of visuals to this. Drive around, say, Camp Washington, and maybe that Brighton Corner area (by the Mockbee lofts) and you'll see a lot of vacancy and "empty" but it doesnt feel that way due to the way those neighborhoods look...in terms of the built environment...

....and there seems to be a lot of big old factory buildings in these places that are still standing, which would have been torn down in Dayton.
\

In Dayton's case I wonder who exactly is so intent on tearing it down? In Cincinnati there is usually some sort of effort to redevelop things more so than Dayton. Not that some neighborhoods in Cincinnati haven't emptied out over the years. But to compare Dayton and Cincinnati just doesn't work well, IMO. Cincinnati is a lot more populated than census figures say. Meaning, that there are so many cities that share contiguous limits, with so much movement between them that it really is a larger city than people may think. I think that, more than anything, contributes to Cincinnati proper having blighted, or even empty neighborhoods, that also can be full of traffic, foot or auto. I hope that makes sense.

For example, in east Dayton (which is where I used to live,) foot traffic was common but never a lot of it. In Dayton, it's hard to find a thriving, neighborhood business district. Cincinnati is loaded with them. In Cincy you can usually walk to restaurants, bars, shopping and such in your own neighborhood. In Dayton I always had to hop in the car and go a few miles in any direction to get what I was after.

Just some thoughts and observations.
 
Old 01-11-2013, 11:00 PM
 
Location: A voice of truth, shouted down by fools.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
For example, in east Dayton (which is where I used to live,) foot traffic was common but never a lot of it. In Dayton, it's hard to find a thriving, neighborhood business district. Cincinnati is loaded with them. In Cincy you can usually walk to restaurants, bars, shopping and such in your own neighborhood. In Dayton I always had to hop in the car and go a few miles in any direction to get what I was after.

Just some thoughts and observations.
I'll corroborate that observation in spades, and I know that it's a squishy thing you're describing that is difficult to quantify. Most areas of Dayton just feel dead absolutely all the time, and most areas of the Cincinnati region feel alive.

IMO that is why "The Greene" is so popular - it has a town square and it induces an artificially high "peak" population density that makes it feel like you're in a big city. People around Dayton want that feeling of vitality but they want their precious cars too - buses are for poor underclass not as good as yourself, after all - and The Greene makes that possible.

IMO this is part of what makes Daytonians uncivilized and rude and redneckish. They don't have the life experience to know how to cope with crowded spaces so they get stressed out and "aggress" more than people in other, higher population towns, when things are crowded.
 
Old 01-14-2013, 07:17 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,762,339 times
Reputation: 2958
Quote:
In Dayton, it's hard to find a thriving, neighborhood business district. Cincinnati is loaded with them. In Cincy you can usually walk to restaurants, bars, shopping and such in your own neighborhood. In Dayton I always had to hop in the car and go a few miles in any direction to get what I was after.
Agree. Good observation.

For me, when I moved here (and it has been exactly 25 years this month) I figured if I had to drive everywhere in the city as well as suburbs...and sometimes even farther....why not just move to the suburbs? (I moved here from downtown Sacramento CA).
 
Old 01-20-2013, 09:23 PM
 
41 posts, read 51,977 times
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Please go to other parts of the USA, then return, and take a good;good at what you are defending.
 
Old 01-21-2013, 01:54 AM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,879 posts, read 2,127,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. PRICE View Post
Please go to other parts of the USA, then return, and take a good;good at what you are defending.
If you mean me, I know exactly what I am defending.

First and foremost I'm defending what should be (and someday just may be) a UNESCO World Heritage site.

And, that's enough for now.
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