Dayton inter city (Springfield, Kettering, Middletown: job market, military, manufacturing)

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

There's going to be a three-way battle for mayor, between Nan Whaley, Gary Leitzell, and AJ Wagner.

Interesting. I worked on Leitzell's campaign when he beat Rhine McLin. He only beat her because a group of Church leaders from the city's westside refused to vote. Anyway, there was a real sense of excitement because a peon priority board leader was taking on the mayor, and of course won. I feel Leitzell could have used "the bully pulpit" to his advantage but seemed to be tamed rather quickly once he realized the futility of being 1 out of 5 votes. My bet is on Nan Whaley winning. Who is running for her council seat?

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

..partly due to the people who live there being slobs and the people who own property not keeping their property up. We can discuss why this is, but its something that is beyond simple code enforcement.

I'm not one to toot their own horn, but in this case it illustrates a good point. When I rehabbed my home in east Dayton, I also rehabbed the landscape. I cut down a lot of brush, tilled the yard and did new grass, shrubs, edged the side walks, etc. My neighbours seemed to mildly resent the effort at first, but eventually started taking better care of their yards as well. I never felt like they were trying to keep up, more like a sense of pride had been rediscovered.

[Dayton Sux]

I feel Leitzell could have used "the bully pulpit" to his advantage but seemed to be tamed rather quickly once he realized the futility of being 1 out of 5 votes. My bet is on Nan Whaley winning. Who is running for her council seat?

I know Esrati is circulating petitions (yet again), but other than that dont know and havnt been paying attention.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

I know Esrati is circulating petitions (yet again), but other than that dont know and havnt been paying attention.

Not him again. Met him a couple times. Very pompous individual. Don't blame you for tuning out.

[Dayton Sux]

I tune out more because I don't live in the city and the politicians are fairly mediocre and bland. I don't know Esrati that well (more from the internet), but we did have some discussions in real-time, mostly about my blogging and posting on Dayton, not so much about him.

He could be a breath of fresh air have on city commission...he did say he is supporting Leitzell, which makes sense as they are both outsiders. I commented--online-- that he could be the Harvey Milkof Dayton, but that won't happend until they get ward elections (which is how Milk got in in San Franscisco).

Leitzell I also know a bit from online, before he ran from mayor. I was leeery of his politics but have come around to appreciate him.

Anyway, Nan Whaley is as good as anyone to be the new captain of the Titanic.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

I tune out more because I don't live in the city and the politicians are fairly mediocre and bland. I don't know Esrati that well (more from the internet), but we did have some discussions in real-time, mostly about my blogging and posting on Dayton, not so much about him.

He could be a breath of fresh air have on city commission...he did say he is supporting Leitzell, which makes sense as they are both outsiders. I commented--online-- that he could be the Harvey Milkof Dayton, but that won't happend until they get ward elections (which is how Milk got in in San Franscisco).

Leitzell I also know a bit from online, before he ran from mayor. I was leeery of his politics but have come around to appreciate him.

Anyway, Nan Whaley is as good as anyone to be the new captain of the Titanic.

Well, quite naturally, Esrati is very concerned about Esrati. He has some redeeming qualities. His muckraking is much appreciated. His ideas are a mixed bag and I think that's because he is too much of a maverick. His political ideology seems to be against the Democrat's that run Dayton in practice only. Otherwise, for ex-military he is quite liberal.

There was a lot happening behind the scenes with Leitzell. He was heavily courted by business interest outside the city during his campaign, but I don't think he was having it. In all fairness, he was likely marginalized from within and out at the same time. But I can only guess. I do know he never was able to do what he said, and seemed to become a team player rather quickly. So, I guess his beef was with McLin? Who knows?

and lol@new captain of the Titanic.

To be fair to Esrati and Leitzell - the both have points I agree with, and those redeeming qualities overshadow my dislikes. At least they are willing to take a stand, I give them both lots of respect for that.

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

But we are both using the same language.

In an effort to get away from the rambling nonsense, what exactly do you think UNESCO would do for Dayton?

What exactly do you not understrand in the words:

"...there's no way anyone can determine a definite direction..."

...Which happens to be what I said.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant

What exactly do you not understrand in the words...

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

Let's apply pkunzip or rot13 and then see what comes out.

Ok, I'm with trying this approach.

[Ohioan58]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

I got so damned tired of hearing about Dayton's heritage and historical importance, meanwhile the city is in shambles and only getting worse as time goes on.

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

I am a big history buff, but heritage/history here is sort of abstract, and the physical form of the old city isn't appreciated that much, or there would be more interest in saving it, or even in interpreting it. ... Not even on the radar here in Dayton....probably because its not that important to or valued by people here,

I grew up in Dayton but I am completely turned into TomJone's sentiment. My opinion is that the way Dayton's history is cited constantly by public boosters is actually an impediment to real progress or any rebuilding.

What stating Dayton's past in the context of new economic development does is create a sense that there's something here that can be salvaged, and that the history could have a tangible effect.

In other words the notion of "Dayton history" has become a distraction from real issues. It makes anyone who initially hears it think that by somehow "leveraging" Dayton's industrial heritage, the region can be reborn. It can't. The infrastructure, the ideas, the can-do attitudes, the politics, the type of people who grew Dayton into 1920's version of Silicon Valley looooong ago flew the coop and went to more progressive regions. Since about 1960 Dayton had been a working stiff's blue collar paradise, and innovation was dramatically slowing.

Look at how NCR was trashed out in the early 70s. The attitude of "we're Dayton, we're great and screw those new fangled computers that will never matter" slowly killed NCR's business. Entrepreneurial attitudes of the early 20th century ossified into an area wide sense of entitlement. That entitlement attitude also made Dayton one of the worst labor relations cities.

What you have now is Dayton's bitterness - unfullfilled attitude of entitlement.

Dayton is a big greenfield... or brownfield. Whose people today, in my very strong opinion, are really not its greatest asset in most instances.

Dayton mainly has physical assets. Lots of naturally occurring water sources. Middling weather patterns. An abundant, high quality, reasonably priced housing stock (albeit based mostly in ethno-squalid neighborhoods.)

The people of Dayton, though, are combative, negative, tense, and cynical, and the few successful or nice ones cloister themselves. (Cliques being everything here as mutual protection guilds.) I think that in itself is why corporate HQs leave the city and the area. The town is socially the pits.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

I grew up in Dayton but I am completely turned into TomJone's sentiment. My opinion is that the way Dayton's history is cited constantly by public boosters is actually an impediment to real progress or any rebuilding.

What stating Dayton's past in the context of new economic development does is create a sense that there's something here that can be salvaged, and that the history could have a tangible effect.

In other words the notion of "Dayton history" has become a distraction from real issues. It makes anyone who initially hears it think that by somehow "leveraging" Dayton's industrial heritage, the region can be reborn. It can't. The infrastructure, the ideas, the can-do attitudes, the politics, the type of people who grew Dayton into 1920's version of Silicon Valley looooong ago flew the coop and went to more progressive regions. Since about 1960 Dayton had been a working stiff's blue collar paradise, and innovation was dramatically slowing.

Look at how NCR was trashed out in the early 70s. The attitude of "we're Dayton, we're great and screw those new fangled computers that will never matter" slowly killed NCR's business. Entrepreneurial attitudes of the early 20th century ossified into an area wide sense of entitlement. That entitlement attitude also made Dayton one of the worst labor relations cities.

What you have now is Dayton's bitterness - unfullfilled attitude of entitlement.

Dayton is a big greenfield... or brownfield. Whose people today, in my very strong opinion, are really not its greatest asset in most instances.

Dayton mainly has physical assets. Lots of naturally occurring water sources. Middling weather patterns. An abundant, high quality, reasonably priced housing stock (albeit based mostly in ethno-squalid neighborhoods.)

The people of Dayton, though, are combative, negative, tense, and cynical, and the few successful or nice ones cloister themselves. (Cliques being everything here as mutual protection guilds.) I think that in itself is why corporate HQs leave the city and the area. The town is socially the pits.

I agree on all points. As I remember it was local politicians who liked to cite Dayton's history the most. Not that I could necessarily quantify that statement, but it seems they used it the most. I Dayton's glorious past is used as "smoke and mirrors" to help hide what is really going on. What's really going on? Wholesale demolition. That's what.