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Old 11-30-2012, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,015,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
I never felt that Downtown Dayton was that small. It is arguably larger than Downtown Akron, which boasts a higher population in the city core.
Hi goofy328--

It has to do with the fact that, in terms of land area, Dayton is fairly small. Go south from downtown along Main Street past Miami Valley Hospital and UD - and you're already in Oakwood. That's only a distance of about two miles. More of the metro area's population lives in the suburbs (something like 80%) than Akron (60% or so if I recall correctly). In any case, most cities are now judged by their metro area rather than the city proper these days - because let's face it, all of these suburban jurisdictions wouldn't be on the map at all if it weren't for the city - they'd be sleepy towns 20 miles off the main drag.



More Development:

Miami Valley School Planning $1.5 Million Expansion
Quote:
The Miami Valley School, a pre-K through 12th grade college preparatory school in Washington Township with enrollment of nearly 500 students, plans to build a $1.5 million new facility for its youngest students, said Headmaster Peter Benedict.

“We want to expand our early childhood offerings,” Benedict said. “That’s a really growing market. Families are looking for a great first start.”
Cleveland Grocer May Open in Downtown Dayton
Quote:
City of Dayton officials and downtown supporters met with owners of Cleveland-based grocery store chain Constantino’s Market Wednesday and Thursday to pitch the idea of opening a location in downtown Dayton, perhaps in the former Greyhound bus terminal at South Jefferson and East Fifth streets.

Constantino’s Market operates two full-size groceries of about 15,000 square feet in Cleveland — “similar in size to what we would be looking at in Dayton,” Mavromichalis said — and a third, smaller location. The larger stores offer a variety of prepared foods, including sushi, a salad bar, bakery and deli in addition to selling grocery items, she said.

Sandy Gudorf, president of the Downtown Dayton Partnership, said the owners of Constantino’s Market have a track record of success in Cleveland and “understand the urban model” of grocery stores.
Fibertech Networks To Lay 150 Miles of Fiber-Optic Cable in Dayton
Quote:
A New York-based company plans to build a new multimillion-dollar fiber optic network in Dayton, company officials said. Fibertech, based in Rochester, N.Y., serves customers that require large off-site data storage or connectivity between offices.

“We do extremely well with health care, finance, banking and people that have large amounts of critical data that they need to transport around the market. We do it both cost-effectively and extremely reliably,” Hurley said.

Fibertech will offer metropolitan-area Ethernet and other forms of bandwidth service to local businesses, and also lease fiber to customers who want to create their own bandwidth across it, he said. Dayton is part of Fibertech’s largest expansion plans since the company was founded in 2000.
Italian Restaurant Confirms Kettering Location
Quote:
The Piada Italian Street Food chain is moving ahead with plans to build a Kettering location at 4397 Far Hills Avenue near Shroyer Road for its second Dayton-area restaurant.

The Columbus-based chain is shooting for a summer 2013 opening, although that timetable is tentative, according to Piada spokeswoman Meghan Dauer. The restaurant will be new construction, which will take about 120 days to complete, Dauer said.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:02 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,754,530 times
Reputation: 2958
Quote:
City of Dayton officials and downtown supporters met with owners of Cleveland-based grocery store chain Constantino’s Market Wednesday and Thursday to pitch the idea of opening a location in downtown Dayton, perhaps in the former Greyhound bus terminal at South Jefferson and East Fifth streets.
This would be a real coup.

I've been to Constantinos up in Cleveland and it is nice (tho you wonder why they'd need it with the Western Market not far away).

Pricey, a bit like DLM actually, but they are a decent, clean, and well-lit small supermarket with fresh veggies and fruits, too.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
5,580 posts, read 5,373,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Hi goofy328--

It has to do with the fact that, in terms of land area, Dayton is fairly small. Go south from downtown along Main Street past Miami Valley Hospital and UD - and you're already in Oakwood. That's only a distance of about two miles. More of the metro area's population lives in the suburbs (something like 80%) than Akron (60% or so if I recall correctly). In any case, most cities are now judged by their metro area rather than the city proper these days - because let's face it, all of these suburban jurisdictions wouldn't be on the map at all if it weren't for the city - they'd be sleepy towns 20 miles off the main drag.
I see what you mean. Where Oakwood exists in Dayton, you're still on the South Side in Akron. Even more reason to further build up the downtown. Plus Akron has that strange topography, in which it is difficult to tell where downtown begins and ends, or, there is a desire to pin downtown to everything from the Innerstate to say, Buchtel, when it could actually be farther out than that.

Speaking of people living in the suburbs, from what occured when I lived there, which was until say, 2003, they were starting to build apartments downtown but they seemed unaffordable for most. Is Dayton trying to court a wealthier resident than what already lives there? The few apartments they have in downtown Akron go for as much as $2,500 a month, and start at $1,600. Those would be cheap rates in a city like DC or NY, and I often wonder exactly what type of resident Midwestern cities want downtown.

Has there been any progress in the actual neighborhoods of Dayton, say on the East, West, or Northern sides of the city, or is everything being poured into downtown? I haven't seen any progress in Akron at all since I've been there in the 90s anywhere but downtown, or perhaps some interesting developments out in the suburbs. I would be interested to know if things are any different in Dayton. A lot of cities can rebuild downtown, but few cities have success increasing density in the neighborhoods inbetween, or at least improving conditions in those neighborhoods.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,015,740 times
Reputation: 2334
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
Speaking of people living in the suburbs, from what occured when I lived there, which was until say, 2003, they were starting to build apartments downtown but they seemed unaffordable for most. Is Dayton trying to court a wealthier resident than what already lives there? The few apartments they have in downtown Akron go for as much as $2,500 a month, and start at $1,600. Those would be cheap rates in a city like DC or NY, and I often wonder exactly what type of resident Midwestern cities want downtown.

Has there been any progress in the actual neighborhoods of Dayton, say on the East, West, or Northern sides of the city, or is everything being poured into downtown? I haven't seen any progress in Akron at all since I've been there in the 90s anywhere but downtown, or perhaps some interesting developments out in the suburbs. I would be interested to know if things are any different in Dayton. A lot of cities can rebuild downtown, but few cities have success increasing density in the neighborhoods inbetween, or at least improving conditions in those neighborhoods.
Hi goofy328--

I'm living downtown, and I'm only paying $700 a month. The same apartment in Cincinnati would run me twice as much, given its superb location and proximity to the CBD. The highest-priced apartments seem to be in the $1300 range - which isn't appreciably higher than what it would be in the suburbs.

The difference between Dayton and say, Cincinnati, is that it's a LOT easier for business and people to relocate in the suburbs, given the city is comparatively smaller and ease of highway access to the suburbs. So the jobs have just moved to the suburbs, where they can avoid paying city taxes. I can get from downtown anywhere in the metro within 20 minutes. Good luck going from Mason to the CBD of Cincinnati in that same time at rush hour.

Translation: Dayton's downtown is far less competitive compared to its suburbs - hence the office vacancy rate and relatively cheap housing.

That said, they've done some pretty good work downtown, around Miami Valley Hospital, and UD is growing as well.

The neighborhoods, outside of perhaps Patterson, are struggling. South Park might be turning it around. But outside of that - the east end, Salem Avenue, or Westwood - are still struggling bad.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
5,580 posts, read 5,373,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Hi goofy328--

I'm living downtown, and I'm only paying $700 a month. The same apartment in Cincinnati would run me twice as much, given its superb location and proximity to the CBD. The highest-priced apartments seem to be in the $1300 range - which isn't appreciably higher than what it would be in the suburbs.

The difference between Dayton and say, Cincinnati, is that it's a LOT easier for business and people to relocate in the suburbs, given the city is comparatively smaller and ease of highway access to the suburbs. So the jobs have just moved to the suburbs, where they can avoid paying city taxes. I can get from downtown anywhere in the metro within 20 minutes. Good luck going from Mason to the CBD of Cincinnati in that same time at rush hour.

Translation: Dayton's downtown is far less competitive compared to its suburbs - hence the office vacancy rate and relatively cheap housing.

That said, they've done some pretty good work downtown, around Miami Valley Hospital, and UD is growing as well.

The neighborhoods, outside of perhaps Patterson, are struggling. South Park might be turning it around. But outside of that - the east end, Salem Avenue, or Westwood - are still struggling bad.
East end is pretty rough. I was curious as to whether Tech Town has improved the East side any. I was there before Tech Town, and that was an entirely different place.

Cincinnati traffic is something else, or at least I thought until I moved out here to Virginia. Absolutely nothing to sit in traffic for 2 hours and go 5 miles out here. I rarely go anywhere I don't necessarily have to go, out of curiousity. It wasn't like that in Dayton. I could leave the city in 20 minutes when I needed to. $700 downtown is very good. I can't find anything for less than $1,300 here downtown, and that is just to get a tiny cramped studio not much space like some dormitory a college student might like.

The only good thing about the traffic is that it has forced the cities to take a look at other options, like light-rail. Cities are too spread out and suburban not to look at those options. That is another thing I liked about Ohio, not so spread out and suburban as things are here; taking anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and a half just to leave the area you may as well stay at home. I wouldn't mind so much if it were urban but no.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,831,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
East end is pretty rough. I was curious as to whether Tech Town has improved the East side any. I was there before Tech Town, and that was an entirely different place.
The East end is still rough and has gotten worse with a lot of vacancies. Of course, the epicenter is still along McLain Street once you leave Saint Anne's Hill. There is a lot of drugs, robberies, and all sorts of crime. Linden Heights and Walnut Hills are still ok, but have their rough patches. Twin Towers still really sucks. So, Tech Town has helped it's immediate surrounding. But those improvements have in no was helped out the east end neighborhoods. Don't even get me started on how crappy Burkhardt has become. Jersey Street is the pits. Oh, Twin Towers is one of the most vacant neighborhoods in Dayton. I think it's only topped by Santa Clara over off North Main on the west side.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,879 posts, read 2,123,968 times
Reputation: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Hi goofy328--

It has to do with the fact that, in terms of land area, Dayton is fairly small. Go south from downtown along Main Street past Miami Valley Hospital and UD - and you're already in Oakwood. That's only a distance of about two miles. More of the metro area's population lives in the suburbs (something like 80%) than Akron (60% or so if I recall correctly). In any case, most cities are now judged by their metro area rather than the city proper these days - because let's face it, all of these suburban jurisdictions wouldn't be on the map at all if it weren't for the city - they'd be sleepy towns 20 miles off the main drag.
True, but the range is about four miles and then some in some places in the other three directions. Residentially speaking, Dayton is more north of Third Street than south of it, although there is quite a bit south toward both the southwest and the southeast.

When you look at a map, don't ignore those arm-like things sticking out to the north. The town is like a round ball that's been flattened on the south side with arms waving on top.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
5,580 posts, read 5,373,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
The East end is still rough and has gotten worse with a lot of vacancies. Of course, the epicenter is still along McLain Street once you leave Saint Anne's Hill. There is a lot of drugs, robberies, and all sorts of crime. Linden Heights and Walnut Hills are still ok, but have their rough patches. Twin Towers still really sucks. So, Tech Town has helped it's immediate surrounding. But those improvements have in no was helped out the east end neighborhoods. Don't even get me started on how crappy Burkhardt has become. Jersey Street is the pits. Oh, Twin Towers is one of the most vacant neighborhoods in Dayton. I think it's only topped by Santa Clara over off North Main on the west side.
I totally forgot about Twin Towers.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,015,740 times
Reputation: 2334
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
East end is pretty rough. I was curious as to whether Tech Town has improved the East side any. I was there before Tech Town, and that was an entirely different place.

Cincinnati traffic is something else, or at least I thought until I moved out here to Virginia. Absolutely nothing to sit in traffic for 2 hours and go 5 miles out here. I rarely go anywhere I don't necessarily have to go, out of curiousity. It wasn't like that in Dayton. I could leave the city in 20 minutes when I needed to. $700 downtown is very good. I can't find anything for less than $1,300 here downtown, and that is just to get a tiny cramped studio not much space like some dormitory a college student might like.

The only good thing about the traffic is that it has forced the cities to take a look at other options, like light-rail. Cities are too spread out and suburban not to look at those options. That is another thing I liked about Ohio, not so spread out and suburban as things are here; taking anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and a half just to leave the area you may as well stay at home. I wouldn't mind so much if it were urban but no.
Hi goofy328--

Traffic is all a relative thing from one town to another, but it's one of many factors that a lot of the "urban planners" on this board tend to fail to realize when they wonder why more businesses don't go downtown. Imagine how much more hopping downtown Dayton would be if all of those business who set up shop at Pentagon Park and Austin Landing were instead headquartered in the CBD. (In fact, quite a few of them left downtown to move to Austin Landing, not to mention new companies that set up shop in the suburbs.)

It's an economic decision. If the cost of doing business in the city (city income taxes, fees, permits, and cost of dealing with an often inept group of city managers) exceed the benefits of downtown (increased business from higher population density and central location), they won't stay there.

Any city that wants to turn around its downtown needs to lower said costs (either through cutting taxes, fees, or sometimes just getting City government to clean its damn act up).
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,831,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Any city that wants to turn around its downtown needs to lower said costs (either through cutting taxes, fees, or sometimes just getting City government to clean its damn act up).
Then explain places like NYC, Philly, San Francisco, etc. that are very expensive and all have high tax rates. These cities have been gentrifying for years and are very much in demand, even adding population. Especially from mid-west transplants.
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