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Old 10-31-2012, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,827,124 times
Reputation: 924

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohioan58 View Post
I'm saying all this because - Dayton has so many amenities and so much going for it, physically and culturally. Great housing stock, great parks and natural environment (mostly), live music and creative arts, top notch higher education, research, blah de blah blah blah. But it has been rotting, not as badly as Middletown or Springfield but similarly.

What's NOT to like? I can hear someone asking. The possible answer: "Well, you ever LIVE in Dayton and know what it's like? Let me tell you..."
Again, not to beat a dead horse, but this describes me to a T. I spent countless hours exploring Dayton on foot, car, and mostly bicycle. I could serve as a tour guide in some areas. I will always be the first one to talk up all that Dayton has going for it. Yet, as soon as you get me on the populace I won't have very many good things to report.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:46 PM
 
225 posts, read 373,914 times
Reputation: 246
I am sorry for your poor Dayton experiences but I will disagree with you from now until eternity. We both have similar upbringings being from Dayton, having moved away, and lived in multiple states. The venom and negativity with which you speak of Dayton is borderline hyperbolic and I have not ever experienced them. Apparently, I have no clue what "clique" I am in. When I go to visit my parents in Dayton I hang out with the people in the neighborhood. It is a diverse neighborhood with Caucasians, African Americans, Hispanics, and even a Turkish family moved in up the street. All the people are friendly and will invite you in for a beer or to a backyard cookout at any given time. I do not understand the clique mentality that you speak of.

I guess I need more description of the Dayton cliques.

As for NCR they went to Georgia because of the ridiculous amount of tax credits and money thrown at them to relocate. This is a bad trend for our country that I witnessed on multiple occasions living in Texas where Governor Perry was recruiting companies from California and they were moving to Texas in droves because of the money and tax credits being dished out. By your theory all these companies moving from California to Texas are doing so for social reasons? Nope it is money....period...One need not look any further than that with NCR. Especially when you consider they relocated to Atlanta which is one of the more racially tense cities in the nation. Atlanta is far from social superiority, in fact I would argue the contrary.

Also, Dayton has a variety of areas with a variety of people. If you do not like one specific area you can move and most likely find a place that would fit you better. I would not want to live in Centerville but many people love it, I would much prefer the Patterson Park Neighborhood which is truly a Dayton treasure. I could complain all I want about Centerville but I know what it is like so I would chose not to live there and I would choose Patterson park.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,827,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bam989863 View Post
I am sorry for your poor Dayton experiences but I will disagree with you from now until eternity.
Does this negate mine as well?
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:42 PM
 
Location: A voice of truth, shouted down by fools.
1,086 posts, read 2,222,089 times
Reputation: 893
Experiences differ and that's fine. I'm not trying to convert, I'm relating personal experiences that have also been validated by several people I know locally who moved here from someplace else.

So, Bam's account begs the question: Why is Dayton not succeeding in growth if it's so warm and inviting and welcoming here? Dayton certainly has low cost of living and great housing stock and decent resources (water, electric, roads) going for it. I keep coming back to one thing: local social culture.

Last edited by Ohioan58; 10-31-2012 at 03:09 PM..
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:00 PM
 
225 posts, read 373,914 times
Reputation: 246
Companies don't pick location based on how nice the people are. Dayton is struggling because of the outsourcing of American industry. I remember in my childhood the large number of manufacturing that was once housed in Dayton. These companies left and Dayton has been trying to reinvent itself every since. It is not easy. These companies did not leave because of any social culture, they left because they could pay workers in Mexico a fraction of what they pay American workers. The great irony is many of these same companies have since left Mexico to go to Southeast Asia, it is a race to the bottom and it is done solely for profit taking nothing else into consideration. Dayton's economy was not as diverse as it needed to be prior to all this outsourcing which has made the rebound even more challenging.

To blame the recent economic issues of Dayton on social culture is a reach. The same things affecting Dayton are affecting places like Rochester, Buffalo, Grand Rapids, Scranton...are the people in all these towns the reason they are struggling? Heck even Chicago has lost a lot of industry over the past decade....is it because of the people of Chicago?
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:22 AM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,879 posts, read 2,121,025 times
Reputation: 590
I'd like to remind everyone that usually "real" or permanent friends are not made overnight.

Also, there can be a difference in the way people act or react based on whether they are transient (present for about four-five years) or permanent.

And, spare me anymore interaction with people who move near me and then try to find out what I'm going to do for them.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:20 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,747,512 times
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I'm a native Chicagoan and have lived in Louisville, Lexington, the SF Bay Region, and Sacramento. Plus I've travelled quite a bit (including to Scranton, Buffalo, Rochester)

Dayton has a lot of issues that revolve around racism, classism, disinvestment, anti-urban or anti-city attitudes, etc, that these places also experience, but for some reason are not the prerfect storm that causes Dayton to be such a dung-hole.

Scranton, PA is a good comparison, as this city, or metro area , had lost its mining industry in the 1950s and its manufacturing sector (textiles) a bit later.

So you'd expect even more of a basket case than Dayton. A worst-case scenario.

But guess what...it isn't as bad as one would expect. In fact, even with a more dire economic history the city is mostly intact with no where near the level of residential and neighborhood abandonment and board-ups and vacant storefronts and just plain shabbyness that you see in Dayton. Yes the place is old and worn, but it hasnt crashed to the level one would expect, knowing the history.

To do a direct city-to-city comparison Grand Rapids would be the place to look because of all the cities in the US GR is the most comparable to Dayton in terms of population and size of econonomy...the "Gross Metropolitan Product", as measurement by the Commerce Dept).

The economic issues with Dayton...as metroplitan area and regional economy vs Dayton proper.... are really not about manufacturing per-se but more about lack of diversification and perhaps a certain insular/apathetic "company town" mentality (which might play into what TomJones and Ohion58 are observating).
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,879 posts, read 2,121,025 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
I'm a native Chicagoan and have lived in Louisville, Lexington, the SF Bay Region, and Sacramento. Plus I've travelled quite a bit (including to Scranton, Buffalo, Rochester)

Dayton has a lot of issues that revolve around racism, classism, disinvestment, anti-urban or anti-city attitudes, etc, that these places also experience, but for some reason are not the prerfect storm that causes Dayton to be such a dung-hole.

Scranton, PA is a good comparison, as this city, or metro area , had lost its mining industry in the 1950s and its manufacturing sector (textiles) a bit later.

So you'd expect even more of a basket case than Dayton. A worst-case scenario.

But guess what...it isn't as bad as one would expect. In fact, even with a more dire economic history the city is mostly intact with no where near the level of residential and neighborhood abandonment and board-ups and vacant storefronts and just plain shabbyness that you see in Dayton. Yes the place is old and worn, but it hasnt crashed to the level one would expect, knowing the history.

To do a direct city-to-city comparison Grand Rapids would be the place to look because of all the cities in the US GR is the most comparable to Dayton in terms of population and size of econonomy...the "Gross Metropolitan Product", as measurement by the Commerce Dept).

The economic issues with Dayton...as metroplitan area and regional economy vs Dayton proper.... are really not about manufacturing per-se but more about lack of diversification and perhaps a certain insular/apathetic "company town" mentality (which might play into what TomJones and Ohion58 are observating).
Plenty of thought there. But....

You realize, of course, that given an extensive German, Polish, Hungarian, and similar population around U.S. air base, there likely would be quite a bit of mixed siege mentality, especially after World War II.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,827,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant View Post
Plenty of thought there. But....

You realize, of course, that given an extensive German, Polish, Hungarian, and similar population around U.S. air base, there likely would be quite a bit of mixed siege mentality, especially after World War II.
I speculate a lot of the standoffishness and clique type crap is from Appalachian culture, which has permeated Dayton.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:47 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,747,512 times
Reputation: 2953
^
The joke is that Dayton is the northernmost city in Kentucky.

(the double entendre in this joke is there is a Dayton IN KY, and it really is the nothermost city)

While Dayton did get a dusting of eastern/southern European immigration it wasn't near to the degree that one sees in the Great Lakes cities, and was pretty much swamped by that Appalachian influx, which really changed the culture in the area.

Drive-By Truckers and Old Crow Medicine Show were some of the most popular picks on the juke at the Century back when i was going there....lol....

Dayton was heavily German, though. Amazingly enough it still has three German social clubs, even though the big German emigration here ended nearly a century ago.

Last edited by Dayton Sux; 11-01-2012 at 09:58 AM..
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