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Old 12-26-2012, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,898 posts, read 2,740,776 times
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A point apparently overlooked hereabouts is that a person's future is a very highly personal thing. And, that's not even taking into consideration the assorted unexpected things both good and bad that might enter the picture due to "tomorrow's unknown."

Dayton is not and never was a good place for just anyone who came along. No place is. It is good for some, depending on what someone is looking for in life.

(Today's positive side comment.)
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:36 AM
 
12,073 posts, read 23,152,474 times
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What is this post about and why do you think it is positive?
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,472 posts, read 6,196,253 times
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Perhaps it could be said Dayton is not a good place.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,833,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant View Post
It is good for some, depending on what someone is looking for in life.
Hi CarpathianPeasant--

^^ This.

I'm pretty optimistic about living in the Dayton area (although admittedly less so about living in the city proper). Because it's got everything I'm looking for - a relatively low cost of living, four seasons, and a decent network of people I've been developing since I moved here. If for some urge I have an itch to visit a bigger city, Cincinnati is 40 minutes away and Columbus an hour away.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:48 PM
 
908 posts, read 1,411,416 times
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I am actually starting to be a little optimistic about the future of the city of Dayton proper. The recent immigrants that have settled here are very entrepreneurial and have also hired some of the people who were already here. I have a feeling that as their businesses grow, they will cause more semi-abandoned buildings to come back into use and vacant houses to be resettled. They may not bring back Dayton to the population and economic levels it once was at, but any improvement is better than none.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,898 posts, read 2,740,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
What is this post about and why do you think it is positive?
What actually prompted the posting is a fairly recent Dayton Daily New article about hospital administrators being paid in the million dollar range. It included the usual claptrap statement about that's necessary to get the best talent. First of all it's never "the best talent," it's something that looks like something from amid that which applies.

The article jogged loose a point well known to any native and a severe sore point: the more or less professional level is unstable or fluid -- people take the jobs, stay a couple of years, then move to some other place half way across the country and can be quickly forgotten at times with a sigh of rellief. Like many other places, Dayton is often seen as a stepping stone in someone's glorious career, rather than as a place to just live.

One should not be depending on any community for one's personal future. To repeat:

Dayton is not and never was a good place for just anyone who came along. No place is. It is good for some, depending on what someone is looking for in life.

And, that may not make things any clearer to some.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:55 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,243 posts, read 7,148,561 times
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^
what you talk about is pretty common across the US, with people transferring around the country either climbing a career ladder, looking for career moves, or looking for work.

"looking for work"....which was a big pull factor to Dayton in the industrial era, is not why one would move to Dayton nowadays because there aint none.

If someone is being recruited to work here or has a career-related transfer or relocation opportunity the situation is different.

In that case I'm thinking of people in management, science, IT, engineering, and other professionals or skilled technical people.

Assuming these folks are mobile and may be thinking of moving on as part of a career progression, finding a house they can re-sell and not lose money is key (since this is a weak-market metro area). And if they have a family good schools are key.

So one sees certain suburbs recommended. As in: Oakwood, Centerville/Washington Township, Beavercreek, Springboro, Tipp City. Good places for mobile white collar management and professional folks since housing here holds value and schools are good.
There are variations, of course, in housing age, quality, and community character, but generally speaking these remain (for now) the "safe" living environment investments in the Dayton region.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,898 posts, read 2,740,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
^
what you talk about is pretty common across the US, with people transferring around the country either climbing a career ladder, looking for career moves, or looking for work.

"looking for work"....which was a big pull factor to Dayton in the industrial era, is not why one would move to Dayton nowadays because there aint none.

If someone is being recruited to work here or has a career-related transfer or relocation opportunity the situation is different.

In that case I'm thinking of people in management, science, IT, engineering, and other professionals or skilled technical people.

Assuming these folks are mobile and may be thinking of moving on as part of a career progression, finding a house they can re-sell and not lose money is key (since this is a weak-market metro area). And if they have a family good schools are key.

So one sees certain suburbs recommended. As in: Oakwood, Centerville/Washington Township, Beavercreek, Springboro, Tipp City. Good places for mobile white collar management and professional folks since housing here holds value and schools are good.
There are variations, of course, in housing age, quality, and community character, but generally speaking these remain (for now) the "safe" living environment investments in the Dayton region.

As usual (it seems it's usual) what you've said is very true.

But, let's look at some hard, cold reality.

The earth spins and we get this high/low weather business out of Canada which makes it cold in the winter. Now, I don't know if you've ever seriously considered the matter, but in Dayton, especially the more northern areas, the wind comes rather predominently out of the northwest. But, that "circle" is so spread out already that in Cincinnati the wind is coming more from the west and it's warmer. Look at Cincinnati's current weather. There's a little snow, but not much at all.

One bottom line, why would any large manufacturing company maintain a presence in the snow belt and pay a power company to heat the place in the winter when a simple move south -- not all the way to Florida as that has air conditioning costs -- would reduce that overhead? There was a time when it was sensible to be near the source of raw materials, corporate customers, etc. Now, if it's something like a small, family owned company, that's a different matter.

Power companies are a big problem. State regulations can't simply just shut them down if they have lousy, greedy management as that would cripple a community (and, I'd bet stockholders are well aware of their "social" power). I had to smile at a current announcement out of New York. The governor more or less declared they had jolly well be ready for the current stormyness. And, frankly, I can't see that happening in Ohio. At least not at present.

The hope for Dayton has to be somewhere besides the likes of General Motors and NCR.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,472 posts, read 6,196,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant View Post
One bottom line, why would any large manufacturing company maintain a presence in the snow belt and pay a power company to heat the place in the winter when a simple move south -- not all the way to Florida as that has air conditioning costs -- would reduce that overhead? There was a time when it was sensible to be near the source of raw materials, corporate customers, etc. Now, if it's something like a small, family owned company, that's a different matter.
The reason why so many companies located in this region alone was a central location to a vast majority of the population. Not to mention 70/75 intersection is the crossroads of America. Off-shoring of manufacturing jobs is what caused the companies to leave the way they did. Otherwise, companies relocate to Charlotte, Atlanta, Florida, etc. because of closeness to airports that can support flights around the world. That let's these companies remain competitive in today's global economy. So they shipped the jobs overseas, and now their white collar employees need access to overseas operations. NCR is a prime example of this.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:38 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,243 posts, read 7,148,561 times
Reputation: 3014
Quote:
The hope for Dayton has to be somewhere besides the likes of General Motors and NCR.
GM/Delphi and NCR's departure means the manufacturing sector here is more diversified. What's left is more niche-market (like Motoman and its robots) and skilled manufacturing (as in the tool & die industry) vs mass production. And it was mass production that led to the population growth in the late 19th and 20th century.

Manufacturing in Dayton was always more than just NCR and GM/Delphi, but since they were so large...and employed so many....they dominated the community. What's left is perhaps more skilled but maybe is more competetive, too.

When I mentioned skilled technical people it could be people working for the modern-day manufacturing sector. However, with the advent of automation and also global competition this sector won't be growing as an employment center (aside from replacing people who retire).


...The failure of Emery to compete in the airfreight business was a big loss for Dayton, since one can see what a sucessfull international airfreight operation can mean by looking at UPS in Louisville, which has spun off manufacturing and warehousing activities drawn to close proximity to overnight international air freight service.

The railroads down there are also playing in this globalization of logistics as they have big container loading operations...containers are offloaded at the port, shipped by rail to Louisville, then unloaded and distributed. We don't usually think of railroads as a big deal but it is interesting seeing this developement....long trains of shipping containers coming into town...but this is sort of a modernization of a historic role for that city (in the past a hand-off point between the North and the South in terms of railroad traffic)

So Louisville is sort of like this big inland "port", via airfreight and containerization, a node in the global economy, which is now contributing the economic & population growth in that city.

This could have been, in part, Dayton (& Dayton was better located for it) if not for the historical accident of Emery being the also-ran the airfreignt buisness.

This does have implications for manufacturing if firms are operating in the context of a global economy and Just-in-time deliveries, and want to be located close to shipping points. For national or midwest distribution I think Dayton still has an advantage due to the location on I-70/I-75 that TomJones mentioned.

The corporate HQ thing is pretty hit-or-miss. NCRs departure had a lot to do with the CEO & board, & one does see corporate HQs in even more out-of-the-way places than Dayton ( Dow in Midland MI, Caterpillar in Peoria and John Deere in Moline, for example). Dayton did miss out on developing a strong diversified white-collar sector, though (the way Columbus and Indianapolis have), beyond what was drawn here by the Air Force.
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