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Old 06-02-2013, 09:43 PM
 
Location: East Dayton, OH
55 posts, read 75,880 times
Reputation: 115

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
I lived in a suburb of Detroit for 3 years, had numerous friends from various neighborhoods around Detroit, bought Craigslist items in Detroit, shopped in Detroit and played in chess tournaments in Detroit. The phrase "Not to profess knowledge" is a polite attempt to keep the conversation abstract.
I would have preferred direct information! Your comment was confusing and not helpful, as it probably could have been. That's all. I don't mind (of course) differences in opinion, but just really find it useful when responses indicate why someone feels a certain way/what primary source experience they have/when the information is dated from, and so on (i.e., DaytonSux's response on Louisville). No harm no foul. Just wanted to clarify.

Have a nice evening,
L
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:38 AM
 
Location: A voice of truth, shouted down by fools.
1,086 posts, read 2,222,735 times
Reputation: 893
^ I'm positive that Detroit has much, much more creative and entrepreneurial energy to bring to bear on its problems than Dayton does.

At an overview level, Dayton is a Mini-Detroit, if one just wants to talk about sound bite issues. But I am sure the comparison falls apart very quickly when you look at things in detail.

The problem with smaller cities like Dayton is that below a certain critical mass of size, there's not enough local will or energy to reboot things when they go to pot.
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:20 PM
 
6,820 posts, read 4,412,863 times
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Detroit recognizes its problems. Dayton still lives in the world of the Wright Brothers, Patterson, Deeds and Kettering. So, advantage Detroit. Detroit has one more fundamental advantage: the American automotive industry might ebb and flow, but it will always be headquartered in Detroit. It might support only 20% (or whatever number) of jobs relative to its halcyon days, but it will never collapse entirely.

However, Dayton has numerous countervailing advantages. Dayton doesn't have quite the same racial tensions as Detroit. Dayton has a stranglehold on the Air Force Materiel Command. Dayton has enough relatively affluent suburbs that professionals relocating to Dayton won't completely suffocate, especially if they have families. Dayton enjoys fierce greater-region loyalty. And Dayton is close enough to Columbus and Cincinnati to feel in some respects like their satellite city.

I've lived in the Midwest, on and off, for a little over 20 years. During that time, I'm actually surprised that Dayton hasn't done better. Perhaps the next 20 years (or until I retire!) will see an improvement.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,879 posts, read 2,121,993 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Detroit recognizes its problems. Dayton still lives in the world of the Wright Brothers, Patterson, Deeds and Kettering. So, advantage Detroit. Detroit has one more fundamental advantage: the American automotive industry might ebb and flow, but it will always be headquartered in Detroit. It might support only 20% (or whatever number) of jobs relative to its halcyon days, but it will never collapse entirely.

However, Dayton has numerous countervailing advantages. Dayton doesn't have quite the same racial tensions as Detroit. Dayton has a stranglehold on the Air Force Materiel Command. Dayton has enough relatively affluent suburbs that professionals relocating to Dayton won't completely suffocate, especially if they have families. Dayton enjoys fierce greater-region loyalty. And Dayton is close enough to Columbus and Cincinnati to feel in some respects like their satellite city.

I've lived in the Midwest, on and off, for a little over 20 years. During that time, I'm actually surprised that Dayton hasn't done better. Perhaps the next 20 years (or until I retire!) will see an improvement.

...Stranglehold....

So, I really don't think it would be a good idea to forget about the Wright Brothers.
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:29 PM
 
3,515 posts, read 3,782,701 times
Reputation: 1808
Normally I would try to re-direct the thread back on topic, but I like this discussion.

I think Dayton is a mini-Detroit. And I don't mean that in a bad way either.


Detroit is known for its nice, family-friendly suburbs like Rochester Hills and Novi, cool, younger suburbs like Royal Oak, and beautiful older suburbs like the Grosses. Overall, the metro is a very desirable place to live.

Also its known for:
- Its great shopping at places like the Somerset Collection
- Strong industrial heritage and automotive heritage
- One world-acclaimed great cultural venue (the Henry Ford museum complex)
- A thriving African-American culture
- Its own type of music (Motown)
- Excellent architecture
- Sizable downtown district for its population
- Auto-centric grid pattern with lots of post WWII growth
- Severe urban issues
- A funky, liberal haven college town in its metro

Sound familiar?

All of those points I can match one-for-one to Dayton. Except for Royal Oak, which is what I was trying to do with this thread haha. That in itself is one reason I like Detroit a lot - it's a city I understand (unlike Cincinnati, which I'm still working on.)
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:56 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,750,175 times
Reputation: 2953
Quote:
Thank you for the detailed response on Louisville! There are a lot of great job opportunities in the city in my field. I have been there once before, just to some of the more touristy stuff in the Highlands and along Bardstown Rd. (a hot brown at the former Lynn's Paradise Cafe was one stop).

I really liked the area a lot. The city of Louisville itself reminded me of Dayton a lot - until I went in its neighborhoods! That's when I was shocked by how much more progressive Louisville was than Dayton. Despite having about the same size of metro and fairly similar central business districts, the difference in the city's composition itself was astounding. I'm one of the type of people that has always wanted to help build Dayton's old neighborhoods into someplace cool like I saw in the Highlands, so maybe immersion in that culture will be beneficial to see what is being done right to bring it back home?

Cool to see Bardstown Rd. wasn't the only area like that in Louisville. I will have a lot of checking out to do in the future. Buying a reno in Old Louisville in the future sounds particularly intriguing now, off to Zillow to see what's there haha
.

...yeah, that Bardstown Road cooridor developed sort of organically over time. Back in the early 1970s it was pretty bland/generic, sort fading, then things slowly took off in the mid to late 1970s and then exploded starting in the 1980s. It was sort by locals and for locals, never intended to be tourist-oriented. The neighborhoods...some of them... around it never really crashed like the ones in Dayton...but became part of the first-wave gentrification trend in the 1970s.

The big amenity for that neighborhood is that it has two nice parks set back in the neighborhoods..Cherokee and Tyler Parks (Cherokee being a big park, like Eden Park in Cincy)

Another area you might find interesting is the Beechmont/Kenwood areas in the South End (which is sort of like the 'Belmont/Patterson Park' of Louisville). This area is getting some interest, too, but the draw is the 'cultural diversity' from all the Asians moving in there. Follow Third Street and Southern Parkway south, south of the Watterson, and you hit Beechmont, then Kenwood. The big amentiy there is Iroqouis Park (the Kenwood area is closer to Iroqouis).

There is a little coffeeshop on one of the shopping streets, Woodlawn, called Sunergos, which is turning into a neighborhood hangout. Its as if there was a coffeeshop on Watervleit in Belmont.

Sunergos started out in the St Joseph part of Germantown, though.

Across from Iroqouis is Sister Bean, which also servers a local ice cream, Comfy Cow (ice cream company run by a gay couple no less!). A nice spot after a concert at the park amphitheatre or hiking in the park.

Yeah, I too see the parallels with Dayton which is a BIG reason why I find Dayton so....disappointing. Same Size? There is still a sizable pop difference btw the metro areas...but I dont think that alone accounts for the cultural or lifestyle differences. Other factors come into play. A big one is that Louisvilles just love their city. "I Luv Louavuhl", as they used to say.

Also, for college educated young adults, Louisville is becoming a migration magnet. Two researchers at Portland State University found that Louisville was in the top 10 cities for luring and retaining college educated young adults: Read about it here


@@@

....yet, that being said Columbus has a lot of the same thing going on, similar atmosphere, similar vibe (tho the layout of the city and the architecture are different), a lot of college-educated young adults, and it's much closer to yr folks in Dayton.

So I say give Cols a closer look.


@@@@

Detroit. bleh. Yes I took a trip out to the suburbs, out Woodward to Bloomfields to Cranbrook for an art show, and also to Anne Arbor for another art show in a gallery downtown. Detroit suburbia could be interesting. I think Ferndale is sort of the 'Yellow Springs/Oregon' type suburb ...or maybe more akin to Oak Park and Evanston in Chicagoland. Older suburb taken over by a more bohemian/hip crowd? Birmingham and Royal Oak look like older Chicago suburs (the ones that developed around train stations).

Never been to the "Pointes". I understand they are the Oakwoods.

Frankly Detroit has more of a Chicagoland feel to it, but unlike Chicagoland there is no cool big city at the heart of it, instead this empy shell. In fact Dayton has done a better job of historic preservation of its older 19th Century and pre WWI housing stock than Detroit (which isnt saying much considering how much has and still is coming down in Dayton).

Last edited by Dayton Sux; 06-05-2013 at 04:40 AM..
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:22 PM
 
3,515 posts, read 3,782,701 times
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^Yeah, if Belmont had a coffee shop on Watervliet, that would be great!

Heck, even Rossville (a neighborhood in Hamilton just west of the CBD) has a pretty cool coffee shop called True West Coffee. It's really helped that area out - definitely a lot more people walking around and enjoying that part of Hamilton, probably in large part due to its presence. Still the architecture of Rossville took a hit recently when a beautiful historic building right on the main drag was bulldozed and turned into a Family Dollar, so I digress.


Dayton Sux, thanks for all of the info on Louisville! I will definitely be using it for the job search (actually, the internship search, but hopefully a job will be following from the same location the year after if all goes well). My #1 employment prospect has a very large facility for one of its divisions in Louisville, so if I land another rotation from them I am sure I will angle to end up in Louisville.

That company does not have large operations in any of the other cities discussed except Cincinnati, which I can make a day trip from college to explore more if necessary. However, there is a lot of employment in my field in Columbus, Detroit, and Indianapolis in my field, thus why they were mentioned too.


Thanks again for the info!
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:17 PM
 
6,296 posts, read 13,179,782 times
Reputation: 2789
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHKID View Post
^Yeah, if Belmont had a coffee shop on Watervliet, that would be great!

Heck, even Rossville (a neighborhood in Hamilton just west of the CBD) has a pretty cool coffee shop called True West Coffee. It's really helped that area out - definitely a lot more people walking around and enjoying that part of Hamilton, probably in large part due to its presence. Still the architecture of Rossville took a hit recently when a beautiful historic building right on the main drag was bulldozed and turned into a Family Dollar, so I digress.


Dayton Sux, thanks for all of the info on Louisville! I will definitely be using it for the job search (actually, the internship search, but hopefully a job will be following from the same location the year after if all goes well). My #1 employment prospect has a very large facility for one of its divisions in Louisville, so if I land another rotation from them I am sure I will angle to end up in Louisville.

That company does not have large operations in any of the other cities discussed except Cincinnati, which I can make a day trip from college to explore more if necessary. However, there is a lot of employment in my field in Columbus, Detroit, and Indianapolis in my field, thus why they were mentioned too.


Thanks again for the info!

Neighborhoods | New2Lou
Just the fact that the city has a new service like this is testament to a city that once lost so many young professionals, is now one of the hottest ones to draw them in for its size.


Each of the hoods listed here, and actually some hoods not listed, have a great sense of walkability, hipsterdom, urbanity, and renewal.

The things happeneing in Louisivlle are very exciting. Think of it as a mini "chicago," a city of many diverse and interesting neighborhoods with lots to discover on "every corner."
And it is only going to get better. Just recently there have been major plans to overhaul complete swaths of older urban neighborhoods, and the development just keeps coming.

To be honest, even some of Louisville's suburban neighborhood's have more street level activity and vitality than what you would find in Dayton. Norton Commons, a new urbanist development, is sort of like The Greene with less national retailers and more focus on an integrated town, row homes, and dense single family homes.

Even Louisville's suburban areas are seeing a boom.
Developments like this:
Idlewild Apartments in Louisville | Lifestyle Communities
New Malls:
Michael Kors, J. Crew, Gap among retailers coming to The Shoppes of Louisville outlet mall in Simpsonville - Louisville - Business First
These things are becoming routine. There are so many announcements, it is getting hard to keep up (I need to update some development threads. The announcements keep coming, and unlike many announcements from the pre boom era around 2006 (many projects, especially downtown, got announced and never built), dirt is turning and steel is rising. Probably the most exciting announcements have been announcements for major revitalization of the fringe urban neighborhoods of Portland and Smoketown.

First-in: Louisville businessman George Stinson focusing on Broadway area, next big move in 30 years of downtown investments - Insider Louisville

And this:
WHAS11's Doug Proffitt previews story on Portland Stroll District | WHAS11.com Louisville
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:04 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,750,175 times
Reputation: 2953
To get a "City-Data" opinion and feedback on Louisville Life, please surf over to this excellent sub-forum
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Old 06-08-2013, 10:12 PM
 
6,296 posts, read 13,179,782 times
Reputation: 2789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
To get a "City-Data" opinion and feedback on Louisville Life, please surf over to this excellent sub-forum
Agreed. Out of curiosity, do you know any good books or sources that describe Louisville neighborhoods in the late 20th century? ie, before the boom that hit in the last 10 (and especially last 5) years?

I have not been to Dayton in almost 2 years. Are there any big urban redevelopment plans there? Any emerging urban hoods outside the typical UD, Oregon, etc? I may take a stroll up there for a tour when I go to Cincinnati for business next month (now THAT is another city really doing well, Cincy that is).
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