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Old 06-24-2013, 03:23 PM
Location: Portland or.
10 posts, read 17,013 times
Reputation: 23


Like attracts like.... We also can attract that in which we fear.
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:58 PM
3,514 posts, read 3,780,583 times
Reputation: 1808
Originally Posted by jenp1110 View Post
Like attracts like.... We also can attract that in which we fear.
Hi jenp1110, would you be willing to elaborate a little more on the meaning of this statement? I'm thinking it is a direct response to a comment in this thread somewhere, and it could spark a valuable conversation....

Thanks in advance!
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:31 AM
3,750 posts, read 10,201,548 times
Reputation: 6560
I guess I should read the Dayton threads more often!

Just a quick note:

I googled Louisville's population: City: 250K, Metro: 1.3million

Detroit: City: 700K (sadly, basically a historic low), Metro: 4.3 million

Now, I'm not going to pretend Detroit doesn't have issues - it does. In fact its probably heading towards the largest municipal bankruptcy to every occur.

However, in spite of that - I think that comparing living in Dayton, Cincinnati, Louisville, or even Columbus to living in Detroit is basically apples to oranges.

Detroit, even in its extremely diminished current light, is a very large metropolitan area. The current wiki page talks about the fact that when combined with additional geographical areas (Windsor, Toledo - all of which is very commutable to Detroit and people do so regularly.) that are not included in the MSA figures above Detroit is at the center of an emerging Great Lakes Megalopolis.

Granted - Chicago already is such a thing, and economically is a much more healthy one than Detroit. However, the OP did not suggest Chicago on his list of "where should I consider" so I'm not speaking to Chi-town.

I grew up outside Detroit on the East Side 'burbs (18-ish years). I went into the city regularly throughout my childhood and adult life. Before moving down here to SW Ohio, I'd spent the last 12 years of my life living in the Ypsi/Ann Arbor area (which was not part of metro detroit when I was a child, but definitely now is).

So, I have more than "3 years of living in the 'burbs" to draw from in my experiences with the city.

If I truly wanted a city/urban/vibrant experience - I would choose Detroit over Indy (cute yuppie/hipster downtown scene) or Louisville or Cincy/Dayton (I don't have much experience with Columbus so I'm not going to mention it) -- simply because they are lovely second (or third?) tier midwestern cities, but they are not MAJOR metropolitan areas.

If I wanted bland suburbanity - I'd still take Detroit, because in Detroit you have a much larger scope to choose from. Old Money - Pointes or Birmingham. New tacky money - Plymouth, Rochester, Canton, an estate in Metamora for god's sake. Hipsters? Royal Oak, Ferndale, Ann Arbor. Hippies? Ann Arbor (but AA is 100K + without students - hardly a small area). Urban living? Detroit. And in spite of its problems, it has some very cool areas to live in.

There is a lot going on in Detroit entrepreneurially - a lot of art, great music (of course!), food, fashion, etc.. But not just the arts - Detroit still has some of the best engineering and manufacturing companies in the world, even with the change to the manufacturing landscape.

Racial? Well - Detroit has some racial tensions. But in my opinion the Cinci/Dayton areas have at least as much tension - the problem is that no one down here acknowledges it. At least in Detroit most people will admit there's issues.

I'm sure Louisville/Indy are lovely. I've visited both, it seems that way. Just as Dayton and Ciny both are lovely. But I don't think you can legitimately compare (good or bad) cities with such vastly different population scales - because it really does affect the tenor of the entire area.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:20 AM
Location: Springfield, Ohio
11,784 posts, read 9,705,627 times
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Briolat, you're gonna get people coming in here and pointing out the depopulated areas of Detroit as proof the city has nothing going for it, but you spelled out exactly why the metro is still #2 in the Midwest, despite all it's gone through.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:47 PM
3,514 posts, read 3,780,583 times
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Thanks for the info, Briolat21!
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:40 AM
3,750 posts, read 10,201,548 times
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Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Briolat, you're gonna get people coming in here and pointing out the depopulated areas of Detroit as proof the city has nothing going for it, but you spelled out exactly why the metro is still #2 in the Midwest, despite all it's gone through.
Meh. I'm not saying that the whole of the city is teeming with life. As I said, its 700K, down from a population (in the city itself) of nearly 2 million at its highest --- obviously that means that the city's density level has changed a lot.

The thing is though - as the city emptied out, the burbs and surrounding areas boomed. Which is why the metro area is such a large one.

And a metropolitan area of 5-ish million feels different than one of 1 or 2 million, just as a downtown/city area with 700,000 feels different than one with 200,000. Even when one takes into account the largely abandoned areas.

Detroit (the professional residents and businesses) has a very global view. It is a city name that is recognized (good or bad) throughout the world - and was even before the internet and facebook made it so that people in tiny little towns with a population of 25 have a sister city somewhere in Japan.

I'm not a blind cheerleader for Detroit - the current economic problems - which are a legacy of decades of a combination of incompetent and basically corrupt leadership, coupled with the change in the American manufacturing landscape - are serious ones. No one knows exactly what is going to happen, or how Detroit proper will emerge from this.

But I merely wanted to point out that you can't really make a true comparison between cities/msa of such vastly different scale. Once upon a time I would have compared Detroit to Chicago, and as far as original tenors of the city it would have been a very apt comparison. But with Detroits population loss its harder to make that comparison (700 Detroit, 2.7 Chicago). I think the rest of the city comparisons (Louisville to Indy, Columbus, Cinci, etc..) in the original posts/questions were pretty apt. Detroit was just a outliar among that group.
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:58 PM
Location: Beavercreek, OH
18 posts, read 50,741 times
Reputation: 28
I used to be an engineer employed at Chrysler in Detroit (2002-2007). I worked about half of that time in Auburn Hills and the other half in the city of Detroit at the old Jeep and Truck Engineering Center (old AMC headquarters). My wife and I built a house in Auburn Hills but I had to do a lot of commuting down to the city for work, so I got to know the burbs and the city pretty well during my time there. I moved from Detroit to St Louis in 2007 to work at the Dodge Ram and minivan plants for the new model changeovers, but left the company in late 2008 when the economy hit the rocks. I since moved to Dayton, OH in early 2011 for my current job here.

I still remember people in Detroit turning their nose up when I told them I was moving to St. Louis, as though it was a worse city to live in than Detroit. Having worked at Jeep Truck in the city I always thought this was pretty funny. During my time there I saw wheels fall off of moving cars going down the road, passed burned down crashed cars on the side of the road, found gun shell casings and hypodermic needles in the parking lot, had co-workers hit over the head with a crow bar in broad daylight, had people run over and backed over again right in front of our building (again in broad daylight), and we my friend even had a homeless guy break into his car just to sleep in it in our work parking lot. If it was dark out it was highly recommended that you only slow down at red lights just to make sure there was no traffic coming and then go. I was pulled over one time for doing this and the cop just walked up to my window, looked at me, then said 'nevermind, get out of here.'

Detroit was caa-ray-zeee... Living in St. Louis for 4 years I got to see the good and the bad there too, but the bad was never even remotely close to the bad of Detroit. I believe that the only reason Detroit's crime rate is as low as it is simply because SO much goes unreported.

Don't get me wrong though, Detroit did have its redeeming qualities and to each their own. In the case of my wife and I, we were both young professionals and simply did not want to raise a family there, even though we lived in a nicer area, Auburn Hills. When we left in 2007 even the nicer areas were steadily declining and we didn't like the trends we were seeing. I can't testify to the current state of the area because I haven't been back since I last visited in 2010.

So, now I live in Dayton. It is not a large city at all and is quite small especially compared to Detroit or even St. Louis. I like it here though. The surrounding areas (or burbs) seem much more stable and secure. St. Louis was much more palatable to my wife and I compared to Detroit too, but Dayton is just as well and this is where the jobs took us. That is just our taste and our opinions though, so take it for what it's worth. We don't go downtown incredibly often, but we do frequent the area by U of D to hit up Dewey's Pizza and we go to some of the parks in Kettering and Dayton. We're very happy raising our children in Beavercreek and have no regrets, especially in our decision to high tail it out of Detroit. I still my my job working on Jeeps as an engineer, but the area just wasn't worth it unfortunately. It's a shame it had to come down to that... Anyway, that's my 2 cents...
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:29 PM
6,815 posts, read 4,408,035 times
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Originally Posted by Jeepin79 View Post
...We're very happy raising our children in Beavercreek and have no regrets...
Excellent point. Dayton's main strength is its eastern and southern suburbs, which as Jeepin79 pointed out, are well-suited to raising kids. Young professionals who pass through life as a child-free couple (and especially as child-free singles) will find the locale to be less palatable.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:41 AM
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Yep, the #1 strength of the Dayton Metro - Family life. I couldn't imagine having a spouse and kids anywhere else, honestly.

On a side note, anyone know much about the apartments near Fraze Pavilion in Kettering? The area has a nice campus-like setting to it, and is within walking distance of the shops in Oakwood. Anyone know if there is a concentration of young people there?
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Old 06-30-2013, 09:27 AM
Location: Dayton, OH
13 posts, read 25,054 times
Reputation: 23
First and foremost, Dayton has a great young professionals group called Updayton,*updayton.. It seems like most of the people commenting here aren't young professionals and/or actually live in downtown Dayton. *I live, work and volunteer in downtown Dayton and I really love it!

Many of the volunteers with Updayton are from varied backgrounds like engineering, accounting, marketing, etc. Many of us have passions outside of our job and we can use our skills to help the sort of projects that we come up with as a team. It's also a great way to meet people and many of us hangout socially. One of the major benefits of living in a small city is that you can become a big fish very quickly if you are motivated and willing to work hard. Also, what I love most is the fact that everyone is welcoming and they genuinely want people to succeed, especially us young professionals. There's a great sense of community here and people push you up.

I used to live in one of the big Ohio cities and the support just wasn't there like it is in Dayton. In bigger cities things are more competitive and clique-ish. It takes longer to break in. And in fact, Dayton is experiencing an increase in young professionals from major cities. I have friends from Charlotte, Boston, NYC, Chicago, the list goes on and on. They have all made Dayton their home and they love it! Unfortunately, I'm one of the few Daytonians that have gotten involved. I think one of the major issues with Dayton is that many natives have lived here all their lives and have an "grass is greener on the other side" attitude, especially about bigger cities. If you have the patience to work very hard and not get very far then a big city might work out for you.

I hope this has helped and I didn't come off too forceful. I'm just perplexed by some of these misguided comments from people who haven't lived in the downtown area in years. Dayton still has many challenges but the beauty is that you can come here and really tackle some of the issues and still have a great inexpensive, fun life here. You can even live in the suburbs and come join the volunteer groups and be embraced. Most of the people end up moving downtown though because it's so great. I hope the suburban commenters take my words kindly and maybe look into joining us because the success of their suburbs, whether they like it or not, is influenced by the strength of this city. We are all in this together and I encourage to positively push forward. If there's something you don't like it in Dayton or want here, come help make it happen!

If you have any questions feel free to message me.

P.S. I know this was a long post but I also wanted to mention that Dayton has a lot of WORLD class amenities; Five Rivers MetroParks, bike routes and historic homes to just name a few. Not to mention that Dayton is super affordable and most of the 20 somethings I know own really nice homes already.
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