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Old 06-05-2015, 07:12 PM
 
26 posts, read 18,901 times
Reputation: 33

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Can we direct this back on topic please? This got really hostile and off topic
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Five Oaks
430 posts, read 449,306 times
Reputation: 323
I'd love to, but apparently everyone would rather rip on someone's appearance and political affiliations. Very classy.
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,880 posts, read 2,131,086 times
Reputation: 595
Well, I don't think particularly highly of hensleya1's comment, either. Besides that, I don't think much of the taxation math argument, but like anything else, if it's repeated often enough some people won't think beyond what is said. And, if a point is which is more expensive tax-wise, restoration or replacement, and who's pushing what and how might they be described, to that extent it is on topic.
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Old 06-06-2015, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,025,093 times
Reputation: 2334
A few subjects to tackle:

Nan: I would seriously hope she grows a thicker skin if "the Whale" is going to catch her and her supporters off guard. Oh, wait, she does have a thin skin. She couldn't even bother to say "Thank You" after visiting the IUE-CWA hall to buy her way into the mayor's office.

Really? Every time a Democrat hears something they don't like, why are they so quick to play the victim card? Nothing's ever their fault, we'll just blame society. It's time the Democrats of Montgomery County own up to the mess they've created from decades of mismanagement and small-mindedness that has sadly, left Dayton in perilous danger of being hopelessly left behind.

This goes back to the Arcade, too - Nan's only move on the Arcade, so far, has been to form a "task force" to determine what to do with it. If she's of the opinion it should be torn down, good - because it's been shown that no private investor has been willing or capable to save the building for 25 years now.

Montgomery County Taxes: This is mostly directed at CP, to illustrate the tax issue, but is posted for everyone's benefit... to show how the math adds up. The property tax rates, income tax rates, and various other fees are all significantly higher than in neighboring counties.

Montgomery County has the second property tax rate out of all 88 counties in Ohio, second only to Cuyahoga County. It doesn't take a genius to say that Cuyahoga County, despite all the redevelopment in Cleveland's downtown, is still declining as a whole. Why? This is because of the countywide levies for Sinclair Community College (3.2 mills), Human Services (14.24 mills), and others. There's also the 0.5% sales tax, that combined with federal grants, makes up 86% of RTA's operating budget.

I've been back and forth about income taxes, but here's the long and short of it: Dayton's income tax is 2.25%. That's permanent now, thanks to Nan... of a hypothetical $50,000 a year salary, that means $1,250 of your hard earned dollars wind up in Nan's pockets. That's the equivalent of two house payments in most areas of town... annually. It's just a cost of living in the city limits, but, paradoxically, makes it more difficult for people on limited incomes to get out of the city as it makes it harder to save money.

And then there's the cockamamie games that City Hall likes to play, such as the streetlight assessment (isn't that supposed to be covered by the income tax and general fund?) and the traffic camera scam... Only Nan, joined by the mayors of Toledo and Akron, the cities likely to lose the most from fleecing their motorists, have lawyered up in defense of the money grab.

As cameras are an egregious violation of due process (a presumption of guilt rather than innocence and the camera ticket is treated as a civil violation rather than a criminal one), I'm surprised to see so few Democrats rise up in fury as they claim to be the defenders of individual rights and claim to want to not use government to force people to bend over backwards. I guess their tune changes when their hands are in someone else's pockets.

A camera ticket - $85 or so - is just another roadblock to keep the otherwise hardworking and honest citizens of Dayton from leaving the city if they so choose.
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Old 06-06-2015, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,880 posts, read 2,131,086 times
Reputation: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
A few subjects to tackle:

Nan: I would seriously hope she grows a thicker skin if "the Whale" is going to catch her and her supporters off guard. Oh, wait, she does have a thin skin. She couldn't even bother to say "Thank You" after visiting the IUE-CWA hall to buy her way into the mayor's office.

Really? Every time a Democrat hears something they don't like, why are they so quick to play the victim card? Nothing's ever their fault, we'll just blame society. It's time the Democrats of Montgomery County own up to the mess they've created from decades of mismanagement and small-mindedness that has sadly, left Dayton in perilous danger of being hopelessly left behind.

This goes back to the Arcade, too - Nan's only move on the Arcade, so far, has been to form a "task force" to determine what to do with it. If she's of the opinion it should be torn down, good - because it's been shown that no private investor has been willing or capable to save the building for 25 years now.

Montgomery County Taxes: This is mostly directed at CP, to illustrate the tax issue, but is posted for everyone's benefit... to show how the math adds up. The property tax rates, income tax rates, and various other fees are all significantly higher than in neighboring counties.

Montgomery County has the second property tax rate out of all 88 counties in Ohio, second only to Cuyahoga County. It doesn't take a genius to say that Cuyahoga County, despite all the redevelopment in Cleveland's downtown, is still declining as a whole. Why? This is because of the countywide levies for Sinclair Community College (3.2 mills), Human Services (14.24 mills), and others. There's also the 0.5% sales tax, that combined with federal grants, makes up 86% of RTA's operating budget.

I've been back and forth about income taxes, but here's the long and short of it: Dayton's income tax is 2.25%. That's permanent now, thanks to Nan... of a hypothetical $50,000 a year salary, that means $1,250 of your hard earned dollars wind up in Nan's pockets. That's the equivalent of two house payments in most areas of town... annually. It's just a cost of living in the city limits, but, paradoxically, makes it more difficult for people on limited incomes to get out of the city as it makes it harder to save money.

And then there's the cockamamie games that City Hall likes to play, such as the streetlight assessment (isn't that supposed to be covered by the income tax and general fund?) and the traffic camera scam... Only Nan, joined by the mayors of Toledo and Akron, the cities likely to lose the most from fleecing their motorists, have lawyered up in defense of the money grab.

As cameras are an egregious violation of due process (a presumption of guilt rather than innocence and the camera ticket is treated as a civil violation rather than a criminal one), I'm surprised to see so few Democrats rise up in fury as they claim to be the defenders of individual rights and claim to want to not use government to force people to bend over backwards. I guess their tune changes when their hands are in someone else's pockets.

A camera ticket - $85 or so - is just another roadblock to keep the otherwise hardworking and honest citizens of Dayton from leaving the city if they so choose.
If she never before saw the relationship of "whale" to her name, she'd be pretty dumb. It falls in the same class as "cat-licker" for Catholic as in cat-licker school. Such is a clear sign the antagonist is at a loss.

Playing the victim card is hardly limited to Democrats (which I, personally, am not). I might also point out that in the area in order to win a good many conservatives have run as Democrats whether they are such or not.

As for the taxes being higher.... The taxes in Oakwood are higher than in the surrounding communities and people still live there. In fact, it's considered a desirable place.

The speech seems to be for a following. That string of reputation came from somewhere.
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Old 06-06-2015, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,025,093 times
Reputation: 2334
CP, the difference between Oakwood and Dayton is like night and day... ever since Oakwood was conceived. If you're paying a high tax rate in Oakwood (which is actually the highest in this whole area) you have at least some assurance that the money is being spent responsibly.

Oakwood has one of the best school districts in the whole state, comparable to the best of the private schools (that typically have a positive bias because of their selective admissions). Their services are top notch, employing a three-purpose public safety system - where the police officer is also a trained firefighter and paramedic. The parks are immaculate, and crime is almost nonexistent despite being located on several RTA lines and directly bordering the city.

The contrast is Dayton - which pays a high tax rate, but they can't even plow the streets or repair potholes in a timely fashion.

If I could realistically afford to live in Oakwood (and it had better highway access), I would have no problem living there.

***

Against that contrast, it's probably a large factor into why many private developers have been unwilling to invest in the Arcade. No matter how you spin it, it's still too close to the RTA hub to be a viable shopping option, and residential conversion faces the intractable problem of HVAC for that big rotunda... who's going to pay for it?

Maybe if they hadn't shut off the steam...
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Old 06-06-2015, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Lebanon, OH
5,687 posts, read 5,924,792 times
Reputation: 12046
I could not rep hensleya1 again but he is spot on.

Nan only got elected for having a D next to her name, other than that she is about worthless.

She is too young to remember when Dayton was a vibrant city and besides that she is from Indiana. How can you know where you are going when you don't know where you have been?

Leitzell was the best mayor Dayton ever had, he cared about restoring Dayton and will be remembered as a bright spot between mayor McHats and Whale-y, and Turner cared more about running for a higher office than he did the city of Dayton.
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Old 06-07-2015, 04:06 PM
 
3,515 posts, read 3,801,916 times
Reputation: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by woxyroxme View Post
She is too young to remember when Dayton was a vibrant city and besides that she is from Indiana. How can you know where you are going when you don't know where you have been?.
Be careful with this line of thought.

Often those who are furthest removed have the best ideas, just because their perception isn't tainted by the way things "have to be".

In fact, I would argue that Whaley's weakness lies solely in her familiarity and coziness with the current order of individuals whom operate in Dayton but care little about it.

Like Rauch for instance.
All she wanted to do with this task force was have a valid excuse to hand him a demolition contract. The architecture firm she hired shot her in the foot and now she has to do real work.... slug.

And Leitzell, whom you cited as the best mayor Dayton has had in recent memory (with which I would agree), is of British descent and has no recollection of Dayton circa 1970 (or even 1980...). But he had a vision of what Dayton could be based on info he had gathered from around the world and actively worked to make the city a great place. We need more people out there like him.


Or we just need to give Whaley some more prodding. I do not get the impression she is an individual that likes change or doing much work, and those kind of people require some swift kicks in the butt to get them moving. It is possible to put that kind of pressure on her if we are actively watching her every move like many more are doing in Cincinnati with their jughead mayor.
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Old 06-09-2015, 04:27 PM
 
1,842 posts, read 1,382,452 times
Reputation: 1298
I could sure do without using the term "The Whale" or anything like it.

There is a guy I work with who is ( probably a racist ) who can't start a "rant" about Obama without calling him "The Magic Negro." It's just not necessary. I can go off on Obama for an hour without talking about race. As a matter of fact, I can't think of anything he has done, racially, that Clinton or Bush had not done similarly.

When you can rattle of negative stuff about the mayor for hours without talking about her weight or sex or race or .... then it's just taking away from the meat of the argument and wasting it on other stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant View Post
As for the taxes being higher.... The taxes in Oakwood are higher than in the surrounding communities and people still live there. In fact, it's considered a desirable place.
I grew up in Oakwood. When I lived there, my mom complained about the taxes all the time.

When she finally moved out, she said that she didn't appreciate the services that she had there and now understands. Oakwood is a suburb of under 10k people. As such, there is a close relationship between the government and the citizens. Dayton? I won't waste my breath.

Oakwood's high tax serves, actually, to keep people from moving there who aren't willing to put up with it. It lends an air of exclusivity that is part of the DESIRABILITY of living there.

Dayton's income tax ( and every other town's income tax ) serve only as a disincentive to live there.

Dayton competes with Kettering and Centerville for a lot of things. The city also competes with Cincinnati and Muncie and other center cities. Unfortunately, in today's world, Dayton also competes with many many other cities with NOOOO income tax. Imagine my surprise when I moved to Albuquerque from Dayton in the 1980's in my early 20's and found out that there is 0% tax. Denver? - a token amount. Phoenix? Nada!

The reason that a city was EVER able to pass an income tax was that people commuted to there and lived elsewhere and thus residents were able to vote FOR a tax on their neighbors. How nice. That structure is gone and done except for a few cities.

Dayton is losing business ( read: jobs, wages, quality of life, and, ... oh ... JOBS ) to the jillions of cities that don't charge income taxes. The city needs high income people to work and live here, but who cares? If they lived there ( the city - Dayton city limits ), they would just spend their high incomes in the burbs since Dayton is an empty, desolate shell with no stores or restaurants or anything to spend money on since it was taxed out of existence.

The only people left are working poor and people who derive most or all of their incomes from the government. They could get rid of the income tax tomorrow and not miss it. Unfortunately, city governments don't understand the concept of cutting back unless forced to like Moraine is doing and, famously, Detroit is.

Dayton can fool some people into thinking that there is new investment when they subsidize apartments downtown and suck in Federal funds to build crappy low-income homes in areas that formerly housed working middle class families, but for those who actually build businesses and provide jobs, Dayton isn't even a consideration.

All that stuff above is Nan and her minions fault.

See? Nothing about her anatomy whatsoever in my rant above.

Last edited by IDtheftV; 06-09-2015 at 04:35 PM..
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Five Oaks
430 posts, read 449,306 times
Reputation: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDtheftV View Post
I could sure do without using the term "The Whale" or anything like it.

There is a guy I work with who is ( probably a racist ) who can't start a "rant" about Obama without calling him "The Magic Negro." It's just not necessary. I can go off on Obama for an hour without talking about race. As a matter of fact, I can't think of anything he has done, racially, that Clinton or Bush had not done similarly.

When you can rattle of negative stuff about the mayor for hours without talking about her weight or sex or race or .... then it's just taking away from the meat of the argument and wasting it on other stuff.
I grew up in Oakwood. When I lived there, my mom complained about the taxes all the time.

When she finally moved out, she said that she didn't appreciate the services that she had there and now understands. Oakwood is a suburb of under 10k people. As such, there is a close relationship between the government and the citizens. Dayton? I won't waste my breath.

Oakwood's high tax serves, actually, to keep people from moving there who aren't willing to put up with it. It lends an air of exclusivity that is part of the DESIRABILITY of living there.

Dayton's income tax ( and every other town's income tax ) serve only as a disincentive to live there.

Dayton competes with Kettering and Centerville for a lot of things. The city also competes with Cincinnati and Muncie and other center cities. Unfortunately, in today's world, Dayton also competes with many many other cities with NOOOO income tax. Imagine my surprise when I moved to Albuquerque from Dayton in the 1980's in my early 20's and found out that there is 0% tax. Denver? - a token amount. Phoenix? Nada!

The reason that a city was EVER able to pass an income tax was that people commuted to there and lived elsewhere and thus residents were able to vote FOR a tax on their neighbors. How nice. That structure is gone and done except for a few cities.

Dayton is losing business ( read: jobs, wages, quality of life, and, ... oh ... JOBS ) to the jillions of cities that don't charge income taxes. The city needs high income people to work and live here, but who cares? If they lived there ( the city - Dayton city limits ), they would just spend their high incomes in the burbs since Dayton is an empty, desolate shell with no stores or restaurants or anything to spend money on since it was taxed out of existence.

The only people left are working poor and people who derive most or all of their incomes from the government. They could get rid of the income tax tomorrow and not miss it. Unfortunately, city governments don't understand the concept of cutting back unless forced to like Moraine is doing and, famously, Detroit is.

Dayton can fool some people into thinking that there is new investment when they subsidize apartments downtown and suck in Federal funds to build crappy low-income homes in areas that formerly housed working middle class families, but for those who actually build businesses and provide jobs, Dayton isn't even a consideration.

All that stuff above is Nan and her minions fault.

See? Nothing about her anatomy whatsoever in my rant above.
Thank you, IDTheftV. Some people just seem to think that it's appropriate to comment on women's bodies. It's inappropriate and quite frankly misogynistic. I never heard people make comments about Leitzell's physique.
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