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Old 07-02-2013, 12:56 PM
 
3,514 posts, read 3,780,583 times
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Good points Hensleya1 and Dayton Sux.


I think a lot of this issue boils down to two simple sides:

Providing necessary transportation vs. preventing inappropriate behavior. I'm more on the side of providing necessary transportation trumps preventing inappropriate behavior, but I see both sides of the issue.

My basis is economic opportunity. A lot of mall workers make low wages. These workers are struggling to pay for reliable transportation, and a bus route would help. The route would give these people the opportunity to work at the mall area. The tradeoff is a need for extra policing, which would have to come from the City of Beavercreek.

Is there a net benefit for Beavercreek? Maybe - if these workers lower the wage rate for service jobs in the city, businesses will be happy and expand. But I'm not sure if that's a far cry or not considering the amount of teenagers and WSU students in town.

I don't have any stats to support any of these claims. For all I know the Dayton Mall area could be struggling to find qualified workers and all the bus line will bring is thugs. That I don't know. But I do fear that preventing the bus line here could result in cutting the WSU bus line, which would really be a detriment to the Dayton metro.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Paris, IN
28 posts, read 47,789 times
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I feel like some people talking about "the thugs" on the city buses, need to actually take a ride on te city bus. The majority of people i see are elderly and service workers. As a frequent, white bus rider, I've literally never seen any types of bad behaviors on the buses in the entire South Dayton area.

I think the thing that a lot of people miss here are the "thugs" and "drug dealers" are driving cars to these places.

This situation with the RTA irratates me to my core, bringing a fiery rage into the pit of my stomach. Because the people that all of this is really hurting are people like me. White, mid 20s mall worker who can't afford to own a car. I can't even shop anywhere near the Beavercreek area. Even on Wilmington Pike/Sugarcreek I have to run across the street to get to a bus stop.

I refuse to shop anywhere in Greene county, I work there and that's it! It's really sad, because "te thug" issue on the bus is seriously blown out of proportion.

Last edited by DaytonGuy; 07-02-2013 at 02:28 PM.. Reason: Forgot a sentence lol
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:32 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 906,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHKID View Post
Seems like the Dayton area has recently had many ethical issues appear or re-surface on its doorstep.

This time is the RTA busing debate.


Beavercreek routinely has tried to keep RTA buses from Dayton out, especially at the Mall at Fairfield Commons. Many (including myself) think the reasoning behind this is based on income and race. Beavercreek wants to keep all of the "undesirables" out, so they think.

Now the state is requiring Beavercreek to allow the busing or funding for their roadways will be pulled. A court has ruled Beavercreek's attempts to block the busing have been a violation of the Civil Rights Act. They have 90 days to respond. I have a feeling Beavercreek will fight this....

Beavercreek's Denial of RTA Bus Stops a Violation of Civil Rights Act | WYSO
The rich white racists of Beavercreek continue to show their arses!

It's been known to be a racist community, and apparently hasn't been "diversified" with the population explosion. Sad!
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:59 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,747,512 times
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Quote:
I feel like some people talking about "the thugs" on the city buses, need to actually take a ride on te city bus. The majority of people i see are elderly and service workers. As a frequent, white bus rider, I've literally never seen any types of bad behaviors on the buses in the entire South Dayton area.
I ride the bus every day.

And as I said the drivers do run a tight ship...but I have seen some of those mall-bound riders (guessing teens or 20 somethings) getting loud and foul mouthed. In one case an guy and his young son were on the bus and after I got off I saw him complain to the driver...

Otherwise yes, the riders on RTA are people trying to get to work, go shopping, go to the doctor, etc. Basic transporation.
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:06 AM
 
Location: A voice of truth, shouted down by fools.
1,086 posts, read 2,222,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherphotographer View Post
The rich white racists of Beavercreek continue to show their arses!

It's been known to be a racist community, and apparently hasn't been "diversified" with the population explosion. Sad!
Sometimes diversity sucks because it includes disproportionate numbers of criminal lowlifes. One thing bus access provides is access for the poorest of the poor. With that you will get more crime pretty much by default.

Beavercreek isn't exactly just racist. It's extremely right wing (thanks to base employees who have the defense state as their bread and butter - government spending is OK when it's for weapons) and xenophobic in the worst Dayton region sense. Dayton is a xenophobic region. When someone around here is rich enough to indulge it, they create enclaves.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:00 PM
 
3,514 posts, read 3,780,583 times
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^true that. If people got past the xenophobia like they do in other areas, Dayton would be a lot better off.

Unfortunately, the mentality as you know for most boomer suburbanites around here is flight, not fight. This is true in almost every metro which has a lot of land to grow and no development restrictions. Why work at improving where you live when you can sell and move to a cheaply built Ryan Home on freshly deforested land?

And then proceed to not socialize with your neighbors, drive your car directly into your garage so you dont have to interact with the outdoors, pay people to pour an alphabet soup of noxious chemicals all over your lawn so it can be "green", and then move again at the slightest sign of blight?

It's bad, but I think this recession has finally caused the tides to turn. A house is no longer seen as an asset which will always appreciate in value. People like having less, because they don't have to have as much credit. And people see the true value they get in the city. Hopefully this causes suburban stupidity to end once and for all, assuming the xenophobia hurdle finally gets broken...
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,011,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHKID View Post
Unfortunately, the mentality as you know for most boomer suburbanites around here is flight, not fight.
OHKID--

I'm 24 and I prefer flight to fighting City Hall in this case. It's only taken me two years of living in Dayton to become completely disillusioned with with this town's leadership, the electoral process, and of course, the people who keep blindly voting them in.

I think watching Leitzell get pushed off the ballot in the fall to watch two Democrats run for the mayor's seat was the last straw (when the Democrats, who have singlehandedly dominated this city for decades, are largely responsible for its continued fall). They needed some independent or Republican voices out there, and there will be none.

I think every Montgomery County commissioner I voted for last year lost by like, a 4-1 margin.

How do I fight that? It's easier to vote with my feet, and I will once my lease is up.

If I remain in the city after I graduate or get employed here, I'll pay 2.5% of my income to them - and what will I get meaningful in return? Nothing.

Or I can move to Beavercreek or Washington Township, which has no city taxes. Hmmmm...



It's not xenophobia that so many people here are quick to attribute to Beavercreek residents. I don't see it, and I'm out there all the time. They're just sick and tired of the city's mismanagement/corruption/insert problem here.




Orrrr, let's rephrase it another way: would you live in a town that doesn't represent your interests, shoots down every initiative you like by huge margins, and nobody you like ever gets elected? Methinks you'd move, too, if you had a say in the matter.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:44 AM
 
3,514 posts, read 3,780,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Orrrr, let's rephrase it another way: would you live in a town that doesn't represent your interests, shoots down every initiative you like by huge margins, and nobody you like ever gets elected? Methinks you'd move, too, if you had a say in the matter.
Probably I would if I could. Both my college and my residence (being my parent's house as I am a student) are located in Boehner's district. Both are in heavily conservative areas. I have almost no politicians whom represent me which actually represent my interests. And I have the same luck with politicians I vote for - Democrats go over just about as well as terrorists among most of the people where I live and go to school. That's a lot of the reason why I comment on City-Data now, at least it gives me access to some people who think like me. It was also nice back when I was a high schooler to comment on here and Urban Ohio as well, although I used a different username at the time.

In a way, I guess that would mean that I too am going to choose flight over fight. But my interests are not in exurban life. I'm sorry, but they aren't now and probably they won't change to be that way. In my opinion, most suburbs provide little value as a commodity, although recent developments like Carriage Trails, the Greene, and Settler's Walk have upped the value proposition and added many amenities into the character of the developments themselves. That's the main issue for me - the adamant fear-based rejection of public services despite the greater good they provide.

Beavercreek should view the RTA as an opportunity rather than a threat. It's a community asset. Yet people in Beavercreek are too NIMBY to see anything beyond the potential problems. That's what gets me about the mindset where I am from - it's the constant mindset of NO, the constant mindset of polarization, good vs. evil, and always bad. It's an easy, uneducated, thoughtless mindset - and it's the result of a FOX-News driven political machine. It's not a coincidence that Boehner (the Republican leader) is from where I live, that one of the nation's largest mega-churches is minutes from my house, and that the population is near 100% Caucasian. Beavercreek is very, very similar.

Beavercreek could be more walkable, more connected to the greater assets of the Dayton area, and be a lot better for it. But fear prevents that from ever happening. Could you imagine how much more desirable of a school WSU would be if Beavercreek got over its fear of Greek life and allowed fraternity houses to build? Or if it actively pursued building a college-oriented district of restaurants and bars within walking distance of campus? Or even if the city (as I have seen preliminary drawings of) constructed a pedestrian path directly from WSU to the mall? But no, there's fear of those rough college students spoiling their "picturesque suburban community". Either that or the $50 in additional tax each year that such projects might cause puts the Tea Partyers in revolt and the initiative gets shot down by the short-sighed stupidity of the pocketbook, despite the benefit to the community over generations...

Great family values, yes. Good schools, yes. Nice houses, debatable, but generally perceived as so. But it's not my cup of tea, and I can't make it work for who I am, so I will flee to the city. Many others feel the same way, and that's why the population of the Dayton metro is shrinking. For the most part, it only caters to one narrow demographic. So I am hoping my future career path will allow me to choose to fight in the city, rather than flee altogether, to make urban living an even more viable option in Dayton. I for one value the services the city of Dayton provides, and will happily pay more for them. It's better than outrageous HOA fees in suburban NIMBY-land...
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:00 AM
 
3,514 posts, read 3,780,583 times
Reputation: 1808
In other RTA news:

Growth challenges Dayton area public transit systems | www.daytondailynews.com
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,011,892 times
Reputation: 2334
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHKID View Post
Probably I would if I could. Both my college and my residence (being my parent's house as I am a student) are located in Boehner's district. Both are in heavily conservative areas. I have almost no politicians whom represent me which actually represent my interests. And I have the same luck with politicians I vote for - Democrats go over just about as well as terrorists among most of the people where I live and go to school. That's a lot of the reason why I comment on City-Data now, at least it gives me access to some people who think like me. It was also nice back when I was a high schooler to comment on here and Urban Ohio as well, although I used a different username at the time.
OHKID--

Just to humor you, I'm going to change a few of your words to allow them to fit me perfectly:

Both my college and my residence (as I am a student, although I rent my own place) are located in Turner's district (although I do live about a hundred yards away from the district line). Both are in extremely liberal areas, which only elected Turner due to gerrymandering. Other than Mike Turner, I have almost no politicians whom represent me which actually represent my interests. And I have the same luck with politicians I vote for (in Dayton) - Republicans and independents go over just about as well as terrorists among most of the people where I live and go to school.

See why I'm moving as soon as my lease is up?


Quote:
Originally Posted by OHKID
Beavercreek could be more walkable, more connected to the greater assets of the Dayton area, and be a lot better for it. But fear prevents that from ever happening. Could you imagine how much more desirable of a school WSU would be if Beavercreek got over its fear of Greek life and allowed fraternity houses to build? Or if it actively pursued building a college-oriented district of restaurants and bars within walking distance of campus? Or even if the city (as I have seen preliminary drawings of) constructed a pedestrian path directly from WSU to the mall? But no, there's fear of those rough college students spoiling their "picturesque suburban community". Either that or the $50 in additional tax each year that such projects might cause puts the Tea Partyers in revolt and the initiative gets shot down by the short-sighed stupidity of the pocketbook, despite the benefit to the community over generations...
I'd be careful with blaming Beavercreek for not having a WSU student district - I'm pretty sure WSU is actually in Fairborn and in any case still uses Dayton addresses - in addition to RTA route 1 sort of being grandfathered in, even though it serves Greene County and is paid for by Montgomery County taxpayers? That would mean that not having a bunch of bars/frathouses would lie with Fairborn, not Beavercreek.

Any attempt to link WSU with the Fairfield Commons area has a big problem on the ground, I-675, which could only be crossed with vehicles. You could add a pedestrian bridge, although at this point a new bridge sounds like a better alternative - it's already clogged with traffic at most hours.

Which has me thinking - rather than using RTA, why can't Greene County partner with WSU and use CATS to provide a shuttle service to the mall if that's the big problem?
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