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Old 07-12-2013, 09:15 PM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
1,821 posts, read 3,895,213 times
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LOL, if this turns into a Columbus vs. Cincinnati brawl...
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:35 AM
 
3,515 posts, read 3,791,155 times
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Update on the Beavercreek RTA Busing Debate... sorry it's behind the paywall

Beavercreek to vote on RTA bus stop application on Oct. 14 | www.mydaytondailynews.com
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
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It will be up to:

(1) the owners of the Fairfield Commons to ensure tight enough security to ensure that they don't go the way of the Dayton Mall or worse, the Salem Mall
(2) the city of Beavercreek to ensure that Greene County residents do not have to pay for a service they don't use. Bus riders only pay something like 14% of the operating costs from fares, the lion's share is paid by Montgomery County sales taxes.

The Greene seems to be doing all right, but the amount of drug dealing around the Dayton Mall area is unbelievable, along with the number of thugs at the mall raising a ruckus and the fights and yelling that accompanies any of those bus stops. Then again, the Greene is separated from the nearest bus stop by a road and some 500 yards of distance.

I stopped going to the Dayton Mall area for that reason, unless it's unavoidable (Harbor Freight Tools namely).
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:19 PM
 
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It's approved:

Beavercreek council OKs Fairfield mall bus stops | www.daytondailynews.com
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
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The amazing thing about this whole thing is there's not a single person I know of who lives in Beavercreek that approved of RTA going to the mall. A few actually called in/let their council members know they didn't want RTA coming in.

The general consensus is that the DOJ got involved and the heavy hand of big hitters from out of the area got involved, and would raise far more hell if city council stood firm (namely, loss of federal highway funds). They repeat all the same concerns that I've pointed out, except magnified: they all wonder if RTA will pay for the additional security, they wonder not whether crime will increase but rather by how much, and they wonder if Montgomery County will try to stick Beavercreek/Greene County with the bill, somehow. I've heard the name "Salem Mall" invoked multiple times in conversation, as well.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:05 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,759,704 times
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Here's an interesting sidebar re The Greene, from back in February:

Quote:
A settlement in a fair housing dispute requiring a developer to retrofit apartments for people with disabilities at The Greene Town Center, also provides an easement for public transit to operate buses inside the Beavercreek shopping mall.
Settlement paves way for RTA buses at The Greene | www.daytondailynews.com

@@@

From the link:

Quote:
.... The highway administration recommended the city rehear the RTA application and revise its bus stop policy to ensure the federal funds.

That finding arose from a complaint from an activist group following the council's March 2011 unanimous decision to reject the Greater Dayton Regional Transit Authority's request for three bus stops along Pentagon Boulevard. City staff previously had determined the RTA request met the requirements of the city's 2000 bus stop ordinance. That ordinance allowed the council to require additional criteria, which the council did
Presumably RTA & Beavercreek will go back to the original proposal that was approved by city staff.

There has been some precedent for this up in Milwaukee, so the Beavercreek was on weak legal standing, esp since this was such a transparent "moving of the goalposts".
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:18 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,759,704 times
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Sort of off-topic: Has anyone here used Greene CATS much?

I sort of wish they were running on weekends, but am finding they are very useful in getting to Xenia or Yellow Springs on weekdays.

Only complaint is you don't get a paid transfer from the Dayton-Xenia bus to the Yellow Springs bus. I found a workaround by taking the Fairborn CATS bus from WSU (RTA-CATS xfer at Wrigth State), and use a free xfr to Yellow Springs from Five Points over in Fairborn (or I could just cycle over to Five Points from WSU).
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Dayton, Ohio
190 posts, read 208,174 times
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I've seen those buses downtown and at Sinclair, though I've never ridden one myself. I've heard that their schedule and routes are very limited, though - basically a couple stops in Xenia, couple in Fairborn, and a couple in downtown Dayton, and they only run Mon-Fri until about 5 in the evening.

As a bus rider until very recently, I always hoped they'd put a bus stop, at the very least, on the same side of the street as the Greene... there's one on the corner of Stroop and Dorothy, and another about half a block down from the intersection of Stroop and that road the community center is on, but that's a busy street to be having to cross during business hours, LoL. I understand not wanting to have buses actually inside the shopping center, as those streets are narrow and traffic often slows to a crawl as it is, but I don't see the harm of letting the No. 12 bus, say, stop at the light just down from the entrance to the movie theater, rather than having it turn down that residential street and toil on a little ways. I often avoided going to the Greene during the winter, in particular, because that stretch of road I had to cross could get pretty damn icy.

I think it ultimately comes down to elitism... not all people who ride the bus are thugs from the ghetto. Some are older folks who are unable to drive, some are disabled, and some are folks like me, who are well behaved but just don't happen to have a car. I wonder if there are any actual reports of crime increasing in an area because bus service went in? People tend to associate buses with "the city," which of course they also associate with crime, but correlation does not imply causation.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:46 PM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
1,821 posts, read 3,895,213 times
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^Expect that to change whenever the applications finally get the go ahead. That side of Stroop's right of way is in Beavercreek. The road itself is still in Kettering. I agree with having the buses actually run through the center, as I cannot see a regular bus making a right at that 4-way intersection on the other side of the movie theater from Stroop. Perhaps that is why they are waiting because new regs and developments could change existing plans. Bus stops would then be allowed on the Beavercreek right of way on Stroop.

Very right about correlation vs. causation. I also blame local news (that's you DDN and WHIO).
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,018,615 times
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A bit of a squirrel but I read an interesting case in my criminal procedure class the other day, State of Ohio v. Augustus Williams, 2004-Ohio-3135, out of the 2nd District Court of Appeals here in Montgomery County. It was an argument over some inconsistent testimony, so I went back and dug up the original case. It's an interesting read.

State v. Williams, 1987 Ohio App. LEXIS 5733

(Insert copyright disclaimer here since I'm simply reposting from a public record court reporter)

Quote:
The defendant, Augustus Williams, was tried by jury in the Court of Common Pleas of Montgomery County and convicted of aggravated murder, kidnapping, and aggravated robbery, with firearm specifications, and from the judgment and sentence thereupon entered in the trial court, Williams has perfected an appeal to this court.

On February 18, 1985, at about 6:30 p.m., Mary Perrine left her home in Miami Township and proceeded to the Dayton Mall in her dark blue 1981 Plymouth Reliant. At the mall, she made payment on her account at Rikes and made a purchase at Sears. Mrs. Perraine thereafter disappeared and was never again seen alive by her friends or relatives.

Upon investigation, it was learned that several customers, who were at the Dayton Mall parking lot on February 18, 1985, at about 8:00 p.m. They had heard the muffled screams of a woman, as well as a number of gunshots, and at least two witnesses had observed a black male with a gun in his hand near dark-colored Plymouth automobile. Unfortunately, the armed suspect left the lot in the car before help could be summoned to the scene.

... On March 5, 1985, the Perraine vehicle was spotted by neighbors on Almond Avenue in Dayton, Ohio. the car had been painted while with some some blue still showing, but upon thorough examination, the police were able to confirm that the Plymouth was, in fact, the stolen Perrine automobile. Subsequently, Williams was identified by the neighbors as the black male who had spray-painted the vehicle, and other witnesses testified that they had seen him driving the stolen car. Another witness, Angelo Smith, indicated that Williams had offered him $ 50.00 to drive the car to Chicago and just leave it there, and still another witness, Joseph Jordan, stated that the defendant had picked him up one day in a dark blue Plymouth and offered him $ 20.00 if he would paint it another color. A further examination of the car also disclosed that someone had attempted to clean blood, which was of the same blood type as Mary Perrine, from the carpet of the rear passenger floor.

On March 13, 1985, Williams was arrested at his home due to his connection with the stolen Perrine automobile, and during the process, he stated "I give up", and then blurted out that "I hope this isn't about that white lady." Williams made similar statements while being transported to the police station even though none of the arresting officers had mentioned anything about the Perrine case or any white lady.

Subsequently, the police confronted the defendant with the fact that they had a witness, one Derric Whatley, who claimed to have been inside the stolen Perrine car with him, after which Williams changed his story and said that he had purchased the car for $ 20.00 at Hoover Bowling Lanes. After stating that he had purchased the stolen car, he exclaimed to Detective Fricker that "I brought the car but I did not kill the lady", whereupon Fricker pointed out to Williams that no one was talking at that point about any killing or murder. The defendant then replied "yeah, you're right".

On the following day, March 14, 1985, Williams apparently became confused as to whether he had told the police that the car was blue or white when he bought it, and he thereupon once again disavowed any knowledge of the Perrine vehicle. Then, when asked by the police why he had previously said that he purchased the car, he replied that he would "rather be blamed for the car than for killing that lady". Thereafter, at the trial, the alleged purchaser of the stolen vehicle, one car to Williams.

...According to the evidence, Quisenberry and Williams had been friends for about three years, and had stolen things from various stores at the Salem Mall. During this period, they had discussed stealing automobiles and taking them to Chicago for sale. On the day of the murder, they smoked a reefer before riding downtown on the bus, and they eventually arrived at the Dayton Mall at around 3:00 p.m. While at the mall, Quiesenberry noticed that Williams was carrying a gun, and when a woman came out of the Sears store, Williams told his accomplice that he was going to rob her. According to the testimony, Quisenberry, they then followed Mrs. Perrine to her in the face with his fist. Williams then threw the victim onto the back seat and shot her in the chest. As the defendant drove away, Quisenberry kept his head down, but after driving around for awhile, Williams pulled over on a dark street where he told Quisenberry to help him move the victim from the car.

The testimony of the juvenile offender further discloses that Mrs. Perrine was crying and pleading for her life as they carried her to a wooded area where Williams gave his gun to Quisenberry and ordered him to shoot her. Thereafter, Quisenberry proceeded to shoot Mrs. Perrine from about five feet away, after which they drove to the Hoover Bowling Lanes. Then, as they parted for the evening, Williams told Quisenberry that he might go back to the scene of the murder for the purpose of removing the body of their victim.
(Augustus Williams is still in jail - his first parole hearing isn't until 2032, but I'm willing to bet he remains in there for life.)

If you want to know why Beavercreek doesn't want RTA coming to the Fairfield Commons mall, look no further. Correlation is not causation, but a few negative reinforcements is you need to permanently ingrain a mindset.
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