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Old 06-30-2013, 04:08 PM
 
3,515 posts, read 3,783,671 times
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Seems like the Dayton area has recently had many ethical issues appear or re-surface on its doorstep.

This time is the RTA busing debate.


Beavercreek routinely has tried to keep RTA buses from Dayton out, especially at the Mall at Fairfield Commons. Many (including myself) think the reasoning behind this is based on income and race. Beavercreek wants to keep all of the "undesirables" out, so they think.

Now the state is requiring Beavercreek to allow the busing or funding for their roadways will be pulled. A court has ruled Beavercreek's attempts to block the busing have been a violation of the Civil Rights Act. They have 90 days to respond. I have a feeling Beavercreek will fight this....

Beavercreek's Denial of RTA Bus Stops a Violation of Civil Rights Act | WYSO
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Old 06-30-2013, 04:37 PM
 
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I think the problem is not a racial one. It is simply that they want Beavercreek's tax money, without putting in lines that would actually benefit the people of Beavercreek. If they built lines to other parts of Beavercreek, then I would want it here. But if all RTA is going to do is have one stop in Beavercreek that requires the whole city of Beavercreek to pay a much higher property tax rate, then it is not worth it.
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Old 06-30-2013, 05:06 PM
 
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What I mean is, if people were really concerned about giving people more access to jobs, how come there isn't also a plan for a line to go to the various business establishments along Dayton-Xenia Rd.? Such a line could benefit both the people in Beavercreek and the people coming to Beavercreek. Why isn't there a plan to have a line run along Shakertown Rd., so that more people have easier access to go to Dayton? The answer is that RTA just wants to extend one route by one stop at the edge of a community that only a small percentage lives near, while manufacturing fake outrage so that it can cover the fact that RTA is trying to steal tax money.
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Old 06-30-2013, 06:11 PM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
1,820 posts, read 3,890,121 times
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1) This was not a court case decision. The civil rights office of the FHWA, an agency of the US DoT (so this is a fed, not a state issue), determined that Beavercreek violated Title IV requirements. This could eventually land in court, but is not there at the moment.

2) RTA cannot implement a tax on Beavercreek residents (to my knowledge, if you see otherwise, please post) without first going to either the voters (or perhaps the county commissioners, which is in and of itself, an extension of the voters). Also to my knowledge, Montgomery County as a whole pays for the RTA services. Yes, even remote Brookville. Except that Brookville cannot out vote Dayton to keep the tax down. Again, if you see otherwise to this too, please post a link.

3) Buses are inevitable. They already go to the corner of County Line and Glengary (a.k.a. the totally fine Greene Town Center) and the area is no worse for the wear. If the Fairfield Mall suffers, as it is already, it is because Beavercreek Council approved The Greene (which I like).
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Old 06-30-2013, 06:15 PM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
1,820 posts, read 3,890,121 times
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I can never understand why suburban types always get their pants in a bunch when public transit comes their way. It's the same here in DC. Oh, the Silver Line is going to cause Reston, Tysons Corner and Tysons Galleria to go down hill. If anything is going downhill, its demographic shifts in towards urban areas/centers as well as sprawl on the fringes.
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Old 06-30-2013, 06:33 PM
 
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I don't have a problem with a bus coming to the Fairfield Commons mall if there isn't a tax levied on the entirety of Beavercreek because of it. Most people I know who are opposed to the bus are doing so because they were told that they would have to pay an additional tax to the RTA, and that that mall has continued to find loopholes to not pay their property taxes, so people feel that they're being screwed over again to pay more taxes because of the mall.
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Old 06-30-2013, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Hi OHKID--

Coming from a regular to the Fairfield Commons, I strongly oppose expanding RTA to Beavercreek, especially if it causes a tax hike on their residents because almost nobody in that town wants RTA to expand there anyway - last I checked, the city council was unanimous in denying RTA's application, and resident email responses were something like 20-1 in opposition?

Even though the Dayton Mall is closer to me both geographically and in terms of time on the road, I got tired of going there because of how filled up it gets with gangbangers and thugs in the evenings. You can't go within three hundred yards of the RTA stops without hearing the taunting and general obnoxiousness. As an added bonus, that area is a hotbed of drug dealing.

Kudos for Glimcher for scrupulously enforcing their MB16 policy, which somewhat alleviates the situation, but I still don't like going there.


Since I can see the invariably racially charged retort coming back in my direction, I'm going to say it once and for all - it's not a racial issue. It's a thug issue.
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Old 06-30-2013, 08:59 PM
 
3,515 posts, read 3,783,671 times
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In hindsight, I wish I would have continued on this thread I just found in the Google results:
The Age Old Question of Public Transit to Dayton's Malls

Or posted these links in the OP:

RTA: Council doesn

Agency examining Beavercreek


.... but I did neither. Oh well.


Hensleya1 - This article might be of interest to you. The police have been called MORE to Fairfield Commons than Dayton Mall or The Greene, despite Fairfield Commons being the only mall without a bus stop in the area: Police calls to Fairfield Commons higher than The Greene, Dayton | www.daytondailynews.com

I can understand your annoyance with thugs. I myself had a similar issue a week or two ago in a common space at Sinclair. They are annoying. I waited them out on pure principle, but it took three hours. My ability to study was probably halved with all of their yelling, talk of drinking and smoking weed, and whispering behind my back (literally!) about white people. They even made snide remarks when I stopped doing my Chemistry homework and looked at CNN for one second! But my question for you is will not having a bus to get to Fairfield Commons really stop them from coming? If they want to get there they will find a way...


As far as taxes are concerned, I'm fairly certain Montgomery Co. taxpayers are picking up the tab. My basis for this is the fact that an RTA line runs to WSU through Beavercreek (with a stop at the Meijer). So either Montgomery Co. is paying for this line or Beavercreek residents are paying for the RTA right now. As far as an RTA intention to levy taxes on Beavercreek, that seems like an easy "NO" vote from Beavercreek residents to me.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:33 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,751,497 times
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Thanks for the update. I was wondering what happened to this issue. I should point out that though this hasn’t hit the courts, a similar issue did hit the courts in Milwaukee and I think there was a settlement in favor of the transit system.

As has been discussed previously, there is no Beavercreek tax money involved. The opposition is about bringing an "undesirable element" into Beavercreek, not taxes. Though it’s not couched in racial terms, since over 70% of RTA riders are black we are talking mostly black people.

If the plan is to turn Line 1 into a loop past Pentagon Blvd, this will make Beavercreek somewhat easier to get to from the ghetto than the Dayton Mall since it would be a single seat ride from West Dayton. Most of the riders using RTA to get the Dayton Mall use X5 which requires a transfer downtown.

The line extension is being sold as a “jobs issue”, to open up an employment center for the inner city, but what will also happen is recreational riding up to that mall (and also there is a big Wal-Mart up there, too, so you’d see some legit shoppers, like there a re at that Meijer next to WSU).

IMO, the issue is really aesthetics and civility, not so much crime.

RTA riders heading to the mall (from my firsthand experience on X5) have a tendancy to be pretty crude and rude. The bus drivers do run a tight ship but when the trash gets off the bus, then it’s up to mall security and local PD to handle the issue…the issue being disorderly conduct, loud & excessive use of the F-word, etc. it IS offensive, and I think this is what the Beavercreekers are worried about, and that’s a valid concern.
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,013,856 times
Reputation: 2334
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHKID View Post
Hensleya1 - This article might be of interest to you. The police have been called MORE to Fairfield Commons than Dayton Mall or The Greene, despite Fairfield Commons being the only mall without a bus stop in the area: Police calls to Fairfield Commons higher than The Greene, Dayton | www.daytondailynews.com

I can understand your annoyance with thugs. I myself had a similar issue a week or two ago in a common space at Sinclair. They are annoying. I waited them out on pure principle, but it took three hours. My ability to study was probably halved with all of their yelling, talk of drinking and smoking weed, and whispering behind my back (literally!) about white people. They even made snide remarks when I stopped doing my Chemistry homework and looked at CNN for one second! But my question for you is will not having a bus to get to Fairfield Commons really stop them from coming? If they want to get there they will find a way...

As far as taxes are concerned, I'm fairly certain Montgomery Co. taxpayers are picking up the tab. My basis for this is the fact that an RTA line runs to WSU through Beavercreek (with a stop at the Meijer). So either Montgomery Co. is paying for this line or Beavercreek residents are paying for the RTA right now. As far as an RTA intention to levy taxes on Beavercreek, that seems like an easy "NO" vote from Beavercreek residents to me.
OHKID--

Despite that article, there's one quote worth repeating from that article:
Quote:
Miami Twp. Police Major John DiPietro said: “We’ve made a number of arrests over the years, and if they’re going to be released, rather than incarcerated, they tell us, ‘Well, we rode the bus out.’
And a bit conversely, if Montgomery County taxpayers are the ones picking up the tab, I wonder what Centerville residents think about subsidizing bus service to Beavercreek? IIRC that's why Mont. Co. pays a higher sales tax.

As far as the bus stopping thugs going to the mall - yes and no is the answer to your question, because it reduces but does not entirely eliminate the thug problem. I can't quantify it with any scientific evidence beyond asking you to spend an evening in the Dayton Mall and then doing the same thing at Fairfield Commons and seeing how many thugs/rifraf there are. It's clearly a problem at the Dayton Mall.

Drug Crackdown Aimed at Mall Area
Quote:
In the past month, federal authorities and regional drug task forces have arrested seven people on heroin, cocaine and other drug charges around the mall.A 20-year-old Dayton man died at a drive through just south of the mall in a shoot-out with the FBI during a drug investigation. In another case, authorities said four people arrested at a nearby hotel were making 50 to 100 drug deals a day in parking lots around the mall.
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