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Old 03-23-2014, 06:22 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 908,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
AndyMac1407--

In a way, "yes".

I posted somewhere else on this forum that I expect the following to happen after the Fairgrounds moves:

1) The land is bulldozed to pave the way for new development

2) A company (possibly Steiner & Associates, the company that built the Greene) will come in and submit a proposal for a mixed development

3) The proposal will run into opposition over at City Hall - not enough sweetheart deals, not enough union labor, not enough kickbacks, etc...

4) The city will tie up the project in permitting and other infighting

5) The development company gives up and pulls out, cutting their losses

6) The land sits vacant for several years before being converted to surface parking for Miami Valley Hospital
You had to explain it to him?

LOL.
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherphotographer View Post
You had to explain it to him?

LOL.
Rude.

But back on topic, I'd say the problems with past development proposals were

1. They were city crafted deals or
2. They were done by shoddy/incompetent developers or
3. They were killed by the recession

I would not blame city governments outside of Case 1. And this development is very far from being a case 1, since Miller Valentine immediately placed a $20mil option on the site.

Ballpark village and Miami Bend (West Carrollton) are good examples of Case 1, Benchrock and the Heights in Huber Heights are great examples f case 2, and Liberty Town Center is a good example of case 3 (as is Austin Landing to a large extent... Since it is a failed development).


Miller Valentine has a vested interest in the community, wanted first dibs on this deal, are highly competent, and a far as I know our economy is on the rise at or faster than the national pace. I see no obvious reason for failure.
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:37 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,753,731 times
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Reading the D BJ article M-V has retained RKTL as their consultant.

This is a major firm with a long history. They did the skywalk plan and the first Fountain Square redesign for Cincinnati. And around that time (late 1960s) they did an urban design plan for Dayton, which laid out the schematic plan for Courthous Square (high rise on the north side, seperated from the CH by a plaza). They also proposed incorporating the Arcade into a downtown shopping mall/office complex, with one of the anchor stores where Elder Beerman went.

The city garage and that walkway with the big staircase/elevator tower was all that was built of their proposed skywalk system.

Here's an interpretation of the RKTL plan for Dayton in the late '60s:
Mid-Town Mart to Courthouse Square

..but that was then and this is now. Urban design concepts change, so it will be interesting to see what they come up with for that Fairgrounds site.

Me...I see spec office buildings for medical tenants affliated with MVH, or subcontractors to GE and UD.
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Old 04-03-2014, 04:01 AM
 
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Looks like this is not quite a done deal yet:

Investors needed for $18M fairgrounds plan | www.mydaytondailynews.com
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHKID View Post
It's going to be developed one way or the other. Even if Miller Valentine can't get retail investors lined up, UD and MVH will have their checkbooks out to get pieces of the land.

I wouldn't be surprised to see something like DaytonSux suggested, office space for GE and UD / UDRI subcontractors, and then a few restaurants and perhaps a hotel and or luxury apartments.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,015,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyMac1407 View Post
It's going to be developed one way or the other. Even if Miller Valentine can't get retail investors lined up, UD and MVH will have their checkbooks out to get pieces of the land.

I wouldn't be surprised to see something like DaytonSux suggested, office space for GE and UD / UDRI subcontractors, and then a few restaurants and perhaps a hotel and or luxury apartments.
I guess I stand partially corrected - it isn't Steiner, it's Miller-Valentine.

I'm not convinced we'll see MVH make a big move on the property - they already own empty land at the corner of Brown and Wyoming (where the KFC used to be) as well as that triangle bordered by Brown and Warren Streets at the edge of South Park - I know MVH proposed putting physicians' offices there at some point?

Likewise with UD... what does UD gain from investing in the property? The only viable use for UD is a new UD Arena... but I would hate to see the traffic tieups on Stewart St before and after a ballgame.
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Old 04-09-2014, 03:44 PM
 
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I am thinking you are right, hensleya1. No real incentive for UD to use any of the space. I can see MVH wanting an option on the northern 10 acres or so, for expansion in later years, but they also have a very large surface parking lot caddy corner to their site. So hopefully they will pass as well.

The one thing I don't see the spot getting is a lot of suburban chain restaurants, like Applebee's, Bob Evans, etc. The reason why is because there are some good outlots available for those type of restaurants available around the Courtyard by Marriott across from UD and some outlots on the former Delphi site next to Love's Truck Stop.
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:34 PM
 
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As a UD fan, I would love to see a new arena built on this land and then for them to put retail/housing across the river from Fifth Third Field, but I know that isn't going to happen. Really, I just want them to do this right. This isn't an opportunity the city gets too often.
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:37 PM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
1,820 posts, read 3,891,495 times
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It will probably be next year at the earliest until things start to physically move. These things take a while, and as noted, they don't come around often. Better not to rush too quickly into a plan and it be a bad one on a design/money/usage basis.
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Old 04-12-2014, 09:02 AM
 
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^Yep, I know this year's fair will be the last held at the fairgrounds, and I doubt they are going to try and move the Roundhouse to Brookville in this cold weather. So yep, probably next year until there is any real movement at the site.
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