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Old 08-07-2013, 03:23 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,776,877 times
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I used to get all ate up about the destruction of the city, but thats what that 'Does it Still Suck There' thread is all about.

My position is the loss of the urban fabric, the everyday "vernacular" buildings that make up a city, is as important as the loss of architecturally signifigant buildings, or ones that are not aesthetically signifigant but have historic value.

This is beyond replacement construction, which is to expected and actually adds to the richness and patina of the urban landscape. Though we can discuss how replacement construction can be detrimental in its own way...

In the case of Troy & Valley this isn't a replacement construction issue but a thinning/culling of the urban fabric, destruction of landmark buildings. I don't think we have seen the last demolitions at that intersection, either.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:24 PM
 
3,515 posts, read 3,804,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
My position is the loss of the urban fabric, the everyday "vernacular" buildings that make up a city, is as important as the loss of architecturally signifigant buildings, or ones that are not aesthetically signifigant but have historic value.

This is beyond replacement construction, which is to expected and actually adds to the richness and patina of the urban landscape. Though we can discuss how replacement construction can be detrimental in its own way...

In the case of Troy & Valley this isn't a replacement construction issue but a thinning/culling of the urban fabric, destruction of landmark buildings. I don't think we have seen the last demolitions at that intersection, either.
Agreed, agreed, and agreed. The buildings within a city make up its vernacular - it would be like if all of Over-The-Rhine was demolished except for Findlay Market. Then Over-The-Rhine would not really have any character.


What is most depressing about the neighborhood commercial around Troy & Valley (and Valley & Keowee) is the fact that re-use is hard because it's very isolated. Rt. 4 cuts the old neighborhood commercial buildings off from Old North Dayton, the neighborhood they were built for. And the only other options, across the river along Keowee, only takes one to an industrial dead zone. Even potential Deeds Point redevelopment won't help because the city decided to place an industrial park between Webster and Keowee.

That's a lot of the problem. Fortunately a cool Whitewater rafting store and a tattoo parlor are holding down the fort by Valley and Keowee, despite the fact that redevelopment of that area overall was a failure. Troy and Valley will be even harder to save....

Last edited by SWOH; 08-07-2013 at 07:21 PM..
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:06 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,776,877 times
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In some ways Dayton is the worst-case of the collapse of neighborhood retail...I've seen more "alive" neighborhood business districts in Scranton, PA other places, places which you'd expect to be bigger zeros than Dayton.

And a good nearby "alternative reality" to that empty Dayton feeling is Cincy, particularly Hamilton Avenue in the Northside. Worth a trip just to walk that street and see what is still possible....

Be that as it may, maybe these are special cases. Douglas Rae, in his outstanding book City: Urbanism and its End pretty much says stuff like Troy & Valley are dead, dead, dead....his book was a case study of New Haven, but VERY relevant to Dayton (esp since New Haven and Dayton are about the same size).

From this review

Quote:
For a phenomenology of urban place, Rae’s most revealing discussion is chapters 3-6, which, through superb archival documentation, reconstruct the day-to-day vitality of New Haven’s neighborhoods and their underlying interpersonal, social, and economic foundations

In chapter 3, Rae examines the city’s “social geography of business” by describing the rich fabric of neighborhood stores that not only sold goods and services but also played a central role in governing “sidewalks and the people who walked on them” (p. xiii) [see box, right and map, right, p. 6

Just as importantly, Rae considers how this dense structure of neighborhood retailing began to collapse—for example, the vulnerability of small enterprises to larger operations like chain stores that generated increasingly efficient economies of scale and thus undercut prices.

Rae finds that chain stores in New Haven appeared as early as 1913 and by 1950 had destroyed most neighborhood shops. The city’s locality-based business geography also depended on a “permissive treatment of mixed-use neighborhoods by government,” a civic attitude that would be replaced by the mentality of single-use zoning, which New Haven adopted in 1926.
...so you could do a similar analyses of Dayton. In any case what retailing that remains viable here is built on a suburban model...big parking lot in front or next door, store set back from the street. Like that drug store in South Park and Wayne and Wyoming (which has since closed), or that Family Video up Wayne a bit.

And you see it in adaptive reuse like Cocos...they save an old building, but tear down the neighbors so you have the old building sitting amid parking lots...just as it would out here in Centerville

(tho I think we do it BETTER in Centerville...the Panera and the Graeters/City BBQ actually fit in the old part of town, with parking to the rear).

Anyway, back to demolitions.

I figure I could do an entire blog of here today/gone tomorrow pix of stuff being torn down.... and what replaces it....if anything....
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:48 PM
 
Location: A voice of truth, shouted down by fools.
1,086 posts, read 2,230,030 times
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The Belmont business district (the Watervliet and Smithville intersection and along Watervliet for a few blocks in each direction) is booming (in relation to most neighborhood shopping districts around this town) but it's hardly historically or architecturally significant. In fact, it's really pretty boring... most of the commercial buildings are single story.

The district only goes back to maybe 1940 and there was nothing of ethnic or historic significance close to it. However, what's interesting is that most of that district has that urban layout of buildings up to the sidewalk, and almost no parking, except in back of a few stores (such as Ballweg Hardware, which was the location of the neighborhood Kroger up until the late 1960s). The little streetside parking that there is around there is in front of a few strip mall buildings that were probably built around 1950. Otherwise, all of those stores and buildings have alleys paralleling Watervliet running in back of them. So, Belmont's business district is very urban for Dayton, and is thriving. Kind of a major exception to the pattern.

The Belmont business district has done OK because Belmont is still a functioning neighborhood and didn't get bisected by freeways or urban-renewed.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:13 PM
 
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I know I'm bringing back an old thread, but...


Anyone been up to Troy recently, specifically along OH 41 west of town? They are planning on demolishing the orange-brick Hobart building, last I heard. It is about 450k square feet in size, and a real icon in town. It will be a shame to see it go...
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Lebanon, OH
5,691 posts, read 5,930,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post

And a good nearby "alternative reality" to that empty Dayton feeling is Cincy, particularly Hamilton Avenue in the Northside. Worth a trip just to walk that street and see what is still possible.
Northside is popular among the gays and hipsters which makes the area somewhat lively and exciting compared to the bland boring rest of Cincinnati. 3CDC is doing a lot to renew the OTR and hopefully it will turn the area around.

The problem in Dayton and a lot of other cities is people who work in the city living in suburbia and not closer to where they work, they do all their shopping and spending in the suburban strip malls and the businesses in the city go under, buildings become vacant and eventually are torn down and that's a shame.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:30 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 914,032 times
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Hey it's early in the game, but another reason to demolish vacant houses

Firefighters respond to explosion in Dayton | DAYTON, OH | www.whio.com

You don't want anything empty sitting around. Sounds like somebody forgot to turn the gas off to it.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:31 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,776,877 times
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I think I am going to do some sort of zine as a sort of Dayton Death Watch or Dayton Daily Demolition ...seven pages of pix of old houses (one per day) and the vacant lot that replaced the house. Sort of a local version of ruin porn

Doing distro on this would be tough, though, since ruin porn is a bit passe', and no one her in Dayton would dare carry it since its contrary to the happy talk spin here...I'd have to sell it via Quimbys or Shake It Records or some zine outlet in Columbus etc...or get it reviewed at Xerography Debt.
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:00 PM
 
9 posts, read 6,227 times
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Lets do something about it?
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:39 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 914,032 times
Reputation: 327
The Schwind Building mess is still there. I walked by that cluster fark yesterday
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