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Eh, it happens. I try to help people on this forum who do have to move to Dayton or its metro, but my personal views are not all rosy and colorful. I am not a cheerleader.
I wonder what Nick has to say about this, because he will sugar-coat Dayton like there is no tommorow. I am all for the local supporters, but when you are down-right lying about things, than that is a different story.
It's quite possibly true that the problem with Dayton has been locals like me, who displayed no loyalty toward the city and moved out - whether cross county or across the country. But, I moved away because I wasn't appreciated here and I found it too empty to stay around when I got out of college. Dayton for me was a very hard place to grow up, and employment wise offered little except factory work when I grew up.
Also the local culture in Dayton was quite bland. I just wanted "different," and people here when I was growing up in the 60s were mildly xenophobic. The local attitudes were stifling and limiting to me.
I suspect that personal story of mine played out thousands of times with young people in the 70s and 80s who turned their back on the town and left because they weren't happy with what they could do here in their careers. That would account for the huge "notch" of educated professional classes that don't exist in Dayton now.
What was left in Dayton were mainly working classes, factory workers, who were then gutted when all of the jobs left over the last 25 years. Multi generation families simply have no means or reason to stay around Dayton unless they're all on welfare, because the range of employment options has vanished.
This is a good post and explains a lot.
One of the features of Dayton is that the Dayton diaspora...people like your generation who left the place...do not have fond memories of it. This sets Dayton apart from places like, say, Buffalo, Youngstown and Pittsburgh, where the people who had to leave for economic reasons still like their hometowns and didn't reject them from a social and cultural perspective. Rather it was economics that caused them to leave. One senses they would have prefered to stay.
People who have left Dayton leave for economic reasons, but also leave for social and cultural reasons, or these are things they don't miss about the place.
One of the features of Dayton is that the Dayton diaspora...people like your generation who left the place...do not have fond memories of it. This sets Dayton apart from places like, say, Buffalo, Youngstown and Pittsburgh, where the people who had to leave for economic reasons still like their hometowns and didn't reject them from a social and cultural perspective. Rather it was economics that caused them to leave. One senses they would have prefered to stay.
People who have left Dayton leave for economic reasons, but also leave for social and cultural reasons, or these are things they don't miss about the place.
I have kept in contact with some friends who stayed around the area. With no exceptions, they act and talk like they just left high school. Dayton is an area that would crush out your individuality. The mentality among "grown adults" when I left Dayton in the early 80s was "know your place, and shut the hell up".
So this may be an important reason - maybe key - why the city has stagnated. It literally drove away any unconventional, out of the box thinkers. All you have left is everyone else - the plodders who made up the status quo of Dayton.
It's not just conservatism. Dayton is different than, say, Cincinnati in extremely negative ways. Cincinnati has had the ability to reinvent itself, and its older neighborhoods don't by default become hard core section 8 urban ghettos.
Maybe it's in large measure a money thing. If one compares Cinci to Dayton, Dayton has no remaining Fortune 500 companies (NCR was the last one that left.) Maybe companies like P&G discipline the city's behavior. All Dayton has left are branches and divisions and plants, no HQs of prominence. With no money things go ghetto and decline.
Dayton is messed up on so many levels. I was a software consultant for years and every company I had any contact with in the Dayton area was FUBAR, bush league and amateurish, filled with mean politics, and persecuted anyone decent. Almost every company I had attempted to contract with in Dayton somehow abused me, ripped me off or screwed with me. Dayton utterly missed the big dot com phenomenon, and a blind squirrel could have found a nut in that time. Dayton is to high tech what Nigeria is to 419 scams - filled with BS, posturing, and empty claims.
Although many decent people are hurting as a result, Dayton truly deserves its fate.
Although many decent people are hurting as a result, Dayton truly deserves its fate.
I find this notion a little harsh. While I may have grown up here, I have no physical ties to the region. My family is all from NYC, Hudson Valley, DC/MD, KY, and FL. We are a very spread out family. So, coming from an outsider, it is frustrating to see a city that had so much going for it place itself in a deep hole.
Even with the recession and housing bust, Dayton also completely missed out on getting anything done with revitalizing neighborhoods (downtown, South Park, and to some extents, even the Oregon Distirct). At least in Cincy, you saw OTR begin a turn-around. DC saw whole sections gentrify. But much of this is due to Dayton's politicians, and while people vote politicians in, a majority of the Dayton regions residents have no say on the inner city's governing body. Perhaps it is that frustration, in part, that leads to hostility towards Dayton itself? People can rag on Dayton all day, but in the end, it's the politicians first, people second, in the order of who squandered Dayton.
Yes, people are hurting, but until real leadership shows up and not some "my-father-is-so-and-so" wannabe or inhouse politician, Dayton is doomed to backwardness in its stances.
P.S. I like Leitzell, but he really is just a figure head. It's the dumb city board members and manager who have the real power and have no figgin' clue what to do.
Funny how SAIC and other major defense contractors have a hard time bringing people from NOVA/DC/MD out here.
Not funny at all. The Capital Region or whatever they call it has evolved into an IT/scientific/engineering hub (esp. the area along the Dulles access road) so there is more of a pool for jobs there. Over here you are trapped in a limited pool of employers and there are limited opportuninities to move on if your gig is over or if you want to shift jobs or move up.
QoL is different things. It could be that, yeah, sure, light traffic and cheap housing, but there are other things that are attractive about the DC area, in terms of culture, and especially higher education if you want to get a grad degree or a second degree. The place is more educated as well as being more affluent and having a robust job market, and that shows in the offerings in the area, things as simple as book stores, arts and entertainment options, etc.
The racial division in Dayton probably played a huge role. Dayton is sort of like a scale model of Detroit.
In the 1970s, one of the overarching local battles was over the alignment of future I-675. Black leaders demanded a western bypass. While existing business travel and commuting patterns of the time dictated an eastern bypass. To me it sounded like a grievance thing - you can't have this because we want this also. I-675 has been a two edged sword, it helped to gut the close-in first tier suburbs like Kettering, but it also was "necessary" as a competitive element for Dayton to stay in consideration for future business growth, since every other regional city has a bypass.
To me (a teenager at the time) the rhetoric always sounded like "don't you DARE grow - we are poor so you need to send jobs over here."
Not funny at all. The Capital Region or whatever they call it has evolved into an IT/scientific/engineering hub (esp. the area along the Dulles access road) so there is more of a pool for jobs there. Over here you are trapped in a limited pool of employers and there are limited opportuninities to move on if your gig is over or if you want to shift jobs or move up.
QoL is different things. It could be that, yeah, sure, light traffic and cheap housing, but there are other things that are attractive about the DC area, in terms of culture, and especially higher education if you want to get a grad degree or a second degree. The place is more educated as well as being more affluent and having a robust job market, and that shows in the offerings in the area, things as simple as book stores, arts and entertainment options, etc.
I know many technical and engineering people who had great jobs before and located back into the Cin-Day region. That move back into the area automatically accounts for a demotion in job role, status and position. It's as though employers here love to say to candidates "say, we know that you will be closer to family, so let's just screw y-o-u some on your salary and your job title. We know how much this means to you. You have to sacrifice to come to Dayton, a shan-gri-la."
I have, after moving around the country for a decade prior to moving back to Dayton, never, ever seen so many crappy, pestilential, mediocre piece of crap companies that bottom feed for talent, than here in the Dayton region. Every company I have ever interviewed at here has at least slightly demeaned me. That big legal database outfit in Miami Twp? That was one of the worst interviews of my life. I interviewed as a programmer and the b*tch that interviewed me there made me feel like a street sweeper, but with less dignity. And THAT is a top tier company in this area. High tech in this area is garbage and accounts for a lot of Dayton's non competitiveness. Anyone with self esteem gets the hell out.
To move ahead in an engineering career in this area, unless you are some major socializing BS-artist born-salesman and can parlay BS into visibility, you are destined for a miserable career in the Dayton region, the land of non opportunity.
I find this notion a little harsh. While I may have grown up here, I have no physical ties to the region. My family is all from NYC, Hudson Valley, DC/MD, KY, and FL. We are a very spread out family. So, coming from an outsider, it is frustrating to see a city that had so much going for it place itself in a deep hole.
It's not harsh. My statement is like saying that a people get the leadership they deserve. Well, later posts in this thread mention the local leadership having a major role in the decline. So Dayton deserves its leadership. Which was responsible for running the city into the hole.
So, coming from an outsider, it is frustrating to see a city that had so much going for it place itself in a deep hole.
I don't know what Dayton has going for it that any number of Midwest cities also have.
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