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Old 06-23-2014, 12:06 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 15,780,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Why do you think there will be high theft there. I mean, I posted it right under your post. Didn't think I had to quote it.
I wasn't sure if your post was directed at me or Amanda. I worked loss prevention for Kroger's for about eight years -- half at Wayne Ave and half in the 'burbs. First, all stores have theft and, in my experience, stores in neighborhoods with a lower household income experienced higher incidents of theft. I have spoken with colleagues who work retail (both food and non-food) LP and their observations mirror mine.
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:26 PM
 
1,328 posts, read 1,044,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
I wasn't sure if your post was directed at me or Amanda. I worked loss prevention for Kroger's for about eight years -- half at Wayne Ave and half in the 'burbs. First, all stores have theft and, in my experience, stores in neighborhoods with a lower household income experienced higher incidents of theft. I have spoken with colleagues who work retail (both food and non-food) LP and their observations mirror mine.
Thanks. I don't disagree, btw, I just wondered why I would be any different than any other area. At least in the sense that it wouldn't make sense to have one there.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:53 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,747,512 times
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Well, we can all be architecture critics, huh?

Here’s a few quick shots.

I am sort of hoping they keep that neat old stone wall along Main Street where the street cuts down through Fairgrounds Hill.

Essentially you have the suburban office park but arranged tighter and in squares vs on curvys. Somewhat similar to the Tech Town site planning. Architecturally I’m not expecting much from M-V, certainly not something of “Greene” quality…it will be pretty banal when it’s built

The residential stuff up on the hill (the Apple Street side of the site) will be primo real estate since those spots will have a great view of downtown, if they do some selective cutting of the foliage up there. This is potentially the most exciting part of the project, possibly the most viable part, too.

The hotel next to MVH? Maybe not considering the noise issues with ambulances, careflights, etc. Not a place for a good night’s rest. But that they are working hotels into this makes a lot of sense, especially considering proximity to UD, GE, etc. Agree with that…that was a good put on M-V’s part.

I am surprised that they are siting the supermarket the way they are. That’s a bit more than I was expecting; it implies creating a sort of business corner at Main & Stewart. But this could be just part of the sales pitch since M-V probably knows there’s this desire for a supermarket close-in, so they show one on the site plan. When the time comes to execute the plan they will say “sorry, folks, market’s not there…” and put in another office block (or maybe, preferably, a hotel).

I see this as potentially generating income tax revenue for the city, since it creates a nice office park environment without the downtown negatives (obsolete office buildings, parking issues and having to interact with the underclass)...it permits the city to re-enter the local spec office space market with some modern product.

It also is a good tie in with UD, GE, and maybe Oakwood… live in Oakwood and locate yr business here vs further-out... It’s also not too far off I-75 (exit Edwin C Moses and cross the bridge @ Stewart), which means somewhat ok regional access via the interstates (should one want to live further out and commute in).
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Old 06-23-2014, 06:33 PM
 
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^hahaha a lot more of the architecture criticism occurred on the Fairgrounds development thread... this has been more targeted towards why a grocery store at the site would / would not work.


I have faith in Miller Valentine. Why? Take a look at their portfolio:
Recently Completed Projects - Miller-Valentine Group

They do good work. Among it was the redevelopment of Cooper Tire into Heidelberg Distribution's new facility, the Roosevelt Homes project on the west side, and a nice loft project in Muncie IN. They have recently opened up an office downtown, and they are very invested in Dayton. A lot is riding on this project, and there is a large profit potential here. The key is to build something worth keeping for the next 100+ years, and I think they will feel that pressure from MVH and UD. Because it will be hard for MVH or UD to leave, so this will be there neighbor for the long haul.


And with the particular supermarket situation, I'm betting they are trying to pull in DLM as the grocery tenant. The store is about the right size, and the situation / attributes seem to parallel the Oakwood location. 35,000 sq. ft. won't build a Kroger, thank goodness.
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:32 AM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
1,818 posts, read 3,888,080 times
Reputation: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
Well, we can all be architecture critics, huh?

Here’s a few quick shots.

I am sort of hoping they keep that neat old stone wall along Main Street where the street cuts down through Fairgrounds Hill.

Essentially you have the suburban office park but arranged tighter and in squares vs on curvys. Somewhat similar to the Tech Town site planning. Architecturally I’m not expecting much from M-V, certainly not something of “Greene” quality…it will be pretty banal when it’s built

The residential stuff up on the hill (the Apple Street side of the site) will be primo real estate since those spots will have a great view of downtown, if they do some selective cutting of the foliage up there. This is potentially the most exciting part of the project, possibly the most viable part, too.

The hotel next to MVH? Maybe not considering the noise issues with ambulances, careflights, etc. Not a place for a good night’s rest. But that they are working hotels into this makes a lot of sense, especially considering proximity to UD, GE, etc. Agree with that…that was a good put on M-V’s part.

I am surprised that they are siting the supermarket the way they are. That’s a bit more than I was expecting; it implies creating a sort of business corner at Main & Stewart. But this could be just part of the sales pitch since M-V probably knows there’s this desire for a supermarket close-in, so they show one on the site plan. When the time comes to execute the plan they will say “sorry, folks, market’s not there…” and put in another office block (or maybe, preferably, a hotel).

I see this as potentially generating income tax revenue for the city, since it creates a nice office park environment without the downtown negatives (obsolete office buildings, parking issues and having to interact with the underclass)...it permits the city to re-enter the local spec office space market with some modern product.

It also is a good tie in with UD, GE, and maybe Oakwood… live in Oakwood and locate yr business here vs further-out... It’s also not too far off I-75 (exit Edwin C Moses and cross the bridge @ Stewart), which means somewhat ok regional access via the interstates (should one want to live further out and commute in).
Yeah, those views would be nice. I had a colleague who lived in Cinci's Fairview Heights and had a killer view of downtown Cincinnati and the whole river. Worst they put up with was the college kids, but their street was fairly quiet and up the hill enough to be outside the abandoned areas of McMicken. To have something like that in Dayton would be sweet, even if it is new construction, which has benefits and drawbacks depending on the builder's quality.

A hotel for MVH! Actually rather surprising they don't have one now. UC Medical and Cleveland Clinic, while much larger (esp. the Clinic) in draw, both have full-service hotels. An upscale Intercontinental (as well as others) in Cleveland, presumably for the Middle Eastern Sheikhs, and a nice Marriott at UC/Cincinnati Children's. Granted both have national draws in some ways. Even OSU has hotels in close vicinity, though none onsite right now. Other than an old Marriott in need of some major renovations, IMHO, there isn't really anything convenient to MVH or even UD. I don't count that Courtyard because it's only convenient to the Arena and across the river. Also, that Crown Plaza is sadly outdated (the whole chain is, IMO).

A supermarket (the main point of this thread), would be nice, but 35K of square footage? That's not much. Perhaps a little bigger and you could have lured Whole Foods, but they won't put more than one store in this market, not yet at least. Perhaps Fresh Thyme? They run about that size and they are already planning stores in Centerville and Beavercreek. Agreed Kroger would find the space too small. But as these are still tentative and conceptual plans, those specs could change.

And yes, great news for Dayton's tax base, jobs line up (construction and white-collar office) and redevelopment. As is demonstrated by the status quo, most office developers rather have new-build then rehab a whole 20th-century-era building. Though rehabbing those for apartments (student and market rate) would be doable and is happening in a lot of other cities, including rust belt ones. But that Exit 51 (Edwin C) needs a light at that S/B off-ramp! With that Love's, the arena and now this, it is sorely in need.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:49 PM
 
1,842 posts, read 1,371,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
I am sort of hoping they keep that neat old stone wall along Main Street where the street cuts down through Fairgrounds Hill.
Compare this view:

South Main St by Fairgrounds ( West side of street )

with the view today:

South Main St by Fairgrounds ( East side of street )

The building in the first link with the towers on the corners and the building behind that were located approximately where the white and tan MVH building looming over Main St. is now. Wyoming used to run straight across into main behind all that stuff. Now, it diverts South behind the view in the second link.

( I used to know someone who lived in an apartment in that 'tower' building. )

Getting to the point of all the above, MVH pulled out a bunch of the stones and replaced them as you can see here.

Note the new grout on the East side and the old grout on the West side. MVH made the wall look like it has been there for more than a century when it is only the stones. They apparently fixed the grout all the way to Apple St while leaving the old wall in place. I think the blending happened near where the ambulance is parked in the street view. That gap between the buildings is where the old Wyoming used to enter Main.

I have been visiting the site NETR Online • Historic Aerials to see how MVH has gobbled-up land and houses over the years. I can compare aerials from 1956 and 1968 to 2004 and today to locate stuff.

It's too bad that when these old neighborhoods are wiped-out that they just bulldoze the area wholesale instead of deconstructing it as much as practical. There are things like solid oak floors and other stuff that would be horrendously expensive to put in new in 2014.

Last edited by IDtheftV; 06-24-2014 at 09:57 PM..
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:18 AM
 
3,514 posts, read 3,780,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightflyer View Post
But that Exit 51 (Edwin C) needs a light at that S/B off-ramp! With that Love's, the arena and now this, it is sorely in need.
YES!! I don't understand how they have avoided putting in a light there for this long. Personally, I'm still not happy Love's is there, but so far they have seemed to be relatively problem-free aside from the initial shooting. That area is not among my normal driving routes, so does anyone out there know if traffic is doing ok with Love's there?
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:26 AM
 
9,345 posts, read 15,780,146 times
Reputation: 17142
I go by there once in awhile; I haven't noticed any traffic problems resulting from the truckstop.
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:58 AM
 
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^Thats good at least.
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Old 06-29-2014, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
5,559 posts, read 5,360,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amandarthegreat View Post
So, the basic plans for 'Midtown' (at the soon to be former Fairgrounds) have been released today.
Everyone that I've talked to has either been very firmly opposed or strongly approving the development.
What do you guys think about it--now that we have some more concrete details?

Dayton "Midtown District" Plan Released | WYSO
I went to an African-American fair there once back in the 90s. Interesting; I did not know that the fairgrounds were torn down. That may be a better use for the property anyway, I don't see anything wrong with it.
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