Loss cause!! (Montgomery, Oakwood: 2014, crime, homes)

[jfre81]

I just moved into here Friday, because I took a job down this way. But, kooks like after 30 days it's tax free. I've never stayed more than a week in a hotel before, so I've never had a reason to look into this. Thanks.

Even still, that's a bill going to taxes in a month.

[IDtheftV]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

You know Oakwood gets a bad rap for having the highest income tax in the area....

Like I said, the taxes are sort of a 'cost of admission' and makes the place more exclusive. The place needs to be able to make it obvious that stuff is nicer and better maintained than in the other municipalities.

Unlike the taxes outsiders pay for the privilege of working in Dayton, the peeps in Oakwood vote these taxes on themselves.

I guess if the rap is bad it is the people outside of The Dome who worry the most about it.

Originally Posted by hensleya1

Another reason the city is a lost cause - low voter education.

Sorry, but you mis-speeled "loss."

Originally Posted by hensleya1

... another 8.2 mill tax hike countywide.

Dayton's population went from 262k in 1960 to 141k in 2010. I wonder what the "population" of city employees did?

The inflation-adjusted wages in the private sector during those 50 years probably dropped 30-40% before taxes. Again, I wonder how it was for the public sector workers?

The population numbers for Montgomery Co were 527k and 535k from 1960 to 2010.

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by jfre81

I just moved into here Friday, because I took a job down this way. But, kooks like after 30 days it's tax free. I've never stayed more than a week in a hotel before, so I've never had a reason to look into this. Thanks.

Even still, that's a bill going to taxes in a month.

Where is your work? Ohio law states that you'll pay city tax both where you live and work (where you work will take priority). If you can both live and work in a non-taxing area (either a city that has no municipal income tax or an unincorporated township), then you'll save 2-3% per paycheck.

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

Where is your work? Ohio law states that you'll pay city tax both where you live and work (where you work will take priority). If you can both live and work in a non-taxing area (either a city that has no municipal income tax or an unincorporated township), then you'll save 2-3% per paycheck.

Moraine. Though I think this is Miamisburg where I'm staying.

Last week I was in a room just outside Springfield corp limit, so that rent was only $150.

[ohio_peasant]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

At this point I no longer care what the levy does - property taxes are too damn high. Owning anything in Montgomery County in hopes of the appreciation outweighing the property taxes is a losing proposition.

Property taxes in the whole region are high, as a percentage of house-value. Services cost essentially the same everywhere, but property values vary greatly depending on locale. In Northern Virginia, where I nominally grew up, an entirely modest house costs $500K. The same house would command perhaps $120K-$150K in the typical Dayton-area suburban "town" (not Oakwood, of course). So the ratio of house values is around 4:1. What about property tax? As an absolute dollar amount, property taxes are higher in Northern Virginia... slightly. Expect to pay $4000-$5000/year on that $500K house. But then consider annual appreciation in house-value.

In America's less affluent metro regions, such as the Miami Valley, we're in a kind of poverty-trap. Taxes, as percentage of value of the underlying asset or income, have to be high, because said asset/income is low in absolute terms. But that is not conducive for business, investment or relocation. Good jobs become scarce, and with that, assets and income come under pressure. The cycle repeats.

Looking at my property tax bill in Greene County, the pie-chart purports that most of the taxes go towards schools; not towards salaries of public administrators, police dispatchers, road crews and the like. So even if one takes a dim view of public-sector salaries and bloated bureaucracy, and slashes those things ruthlessly, the result really won't be a huge savings. This reminds me of the broader fiscal crisis at the Federal level. Cutting "discretionary spending" is popular, and indeed there's much spending that is wasteful. But in percentage terms, it's a small portion of the overall budget. At the Federal level, most of our spending goes to direct-payment or subsidy programs, which can be cut only marginally, and at great political cost. At the state and local level, the corresponding cost is schools, which can't be cut for similar reasons. We're stuck. What's going to break first?

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by jfre81

Moraine. Though I think this is Miamisburg where I'm staying.

Last week I was in a room just outside Springfield corp limit, so that rent was only $150.

Moraine, starting in 2015, will have the highest local tax rate of the entire Miami Valley, at 2.75%. I hate to say you're pretty much SOL in terms of avoiding the city tax.

Don't live there, though - during the spring and summer months there's a sewage treatment plant just up the road from Moraine and it smells disgusting throughout that whole town. You'll sometimes get a whiff of it passing the Heidelberg warehouse going north or south on I-75.

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

Looking at my property tax bill in Greene County, the pie-chart purports that most of the taxes go towards schools; not towards salaries of public administrators, police dispatchers, road crews and the like. So even if one takes a dim view of public-sector salaries and bloated bureaucracy, and slashes those things ruthlessly, the result really won't be a huge savings. This reminds me of the broader fiscal crisis at the Federal level. Cutting "discretionary spending" is popular, and indeed there's much spending that is wasteful. But in percentage terms, it's a small portion of the overall budget. At the Federal level, most of our spending goes to direct-payment or subsidy programs, which can be cut only marginally, and at great political cost. At the state and local level, the corresponding cost is schools, which can't be cut for similar reasons. We're stuck. What's going to break first?

Most people, myself included, not only take a dim view of public sector unions but also use that to encompass teacher's unions. I know property taxes all throughout the state are too high, and in almost every case the school district takes the lion's share of the property taxes. It's been ruled unconstitutional four times by the Ohio Supreme Court but to this day the legislature has failed to come up with a better way to fund schools. In a way they're good - it requires the school district to come to the voters periodically, but if the district's property is worthless, you wind up with 20+ mill levies on the ballot.

I've said here and on other boards multiple times that I will refuse, under any circumstances, to support a school levy unless the school board votes to decertify the OEA as their labor representative.

Which is probably going to be never, so I'll never vote yes on a levy.

***

Before anyone comes in with an asinine comment about "it's for the children", "vote for the future", that's a real load of bull. Check out Opportunity Ohio or the Buckeye Institute and you'll see how much the teachers, especially those who have been there 30 years and are less qualified than the recent graduates, actually make - for working nine months out of the year. Plus when you factor in all the benefits - pensions, paid time off, etc, they easily make two or three times the median income of the city they're in.

And when they don't pass a tax hike, the teacher's union throws a tantrum and forces the school board to gut busing. In an attempt to pressure harried parents into passing the levy next time. Last time that happened in Beavercreek because they failed to pass a levy four times in a row... every morning the traffic along Dayton-Xenia Road was horrific because they gutted the high school bus routes. Guess what, the fifth time they tried to pass a levy, it worked, taxes went up again.

Yes, teaching in a public school system is a thankless job. But when the money isn't there... it isn't there.

[IDtheftV]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

... the pie-chart purports that most of the taxes go towards schools; not towards salaries of public administrators, police dispatchers, road crews and the like.

Of course, that is making the assumption that 100% of school budgets are untouchable.

Also, the pie-chart shows money from property taxes at the county level. Government accounting, if it were used for businesses and individuals would land those entities in jail. Did the pie-chart show revenues from all sources or just the property taxes? For instance, auto registration "fees" are just tax revenue by another name.

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

... fiscal crisis at the Federal level. Cutting "discretionary spending" is popular, and indeed there's much spending that is wasteful. But in percentage terms, it's a small portion of the overall budget.

Right. If 100% of "discretionary spending" was cut - leaving only Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and the Defense stuff, there would still be a Federal Budget deficit.

What Ohio needs is the authority to issue it's own currency and then use it to buy it's own bonds. It seems to work for the Feds. Who was it that said that deficits don't matter? Hint: When his face is reflected in the mirror, there are horns ....

Detroit is letting us know that all the pension promises made by politicians have no weight. There are lots of Midwest cities that are following closely.

[marketingtiger]

Dayton is far from a lost cause... there are new groups forming to bring 25,000 jobs to the city... get in the loop folks!

[stdatwmu]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

I had to look it up - it's another 8.2 mill tax hike countywide. I'll have to crunch the numbers but I'm pretty sure that will make Montgomery County have the highest property tax rate in the entire state.

At this point I no longer care what the levy does - property taxes are too damn high. Owning anything in Montgomery County in hopes of the appreciation outweighing the property taxes is a losing proposition.

Last time I did the math, taxes on our house have increased about 42% in under 6 years.