U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Dayton
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-14-2015, 12:00 PM
 
1,842 posts, read 1,375,338 times
Reputation: 1298

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyMac1407 View Post
I will probably get blasted for saying this....but....here goes...
I had a blast reading your post. Does that count?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
We need local government to give companies reasons to be creative, innovative, and grow. And, not just do that, but do that in Dayton. Not start in Dayton and then move. We need to give the growing companies reasons to stay.
Right. Governments all over get sucked into the corporate welfare game where they give expensive "incentives" for a company to expand or move here. (*)

The thing is, it's all for show. The times that the bubblehead politicians get their photo-op are when they get a couple dozen 'trophy jobs.' In the mean time, there might be a couple dozen existing enterprises already IN Dayton ( or Kettering, or Troy, or ... ) that decide NOT to expand because the cost and time and aggravation of getting permits and other paperwork done just isn't worth it.

It's easy to give away taxpayer money for corporate welfare. It's hard to streamline government services for the benefit of the people that really matter. It's going to be hard to cut back on the city payroll and other expenses, but they will have to or die.

It's not just Dayton. In the long run, a city doesn't need to compete with other cities to get trophy factories and such ( ie. some new google or tesla facility ), but they can't resist. In the long run those things don't move the employment needle.

(*) when the incentives run out, the 'welfare queen companies' just find another locale to give them someone else's money ...

Last edited by IDtheftV; 04-14-2015 at 12:37 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-14-2015, 12:45 PM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
1,821 posts, read 3,892,820 times
Reputation: 853
A fair assessment. And a good warning for anyone who thinks money and power and innovation stay in one place. And even trying to hold onto presents problems, because you can't. It's like dictatorial power. Squeeze harder to hold onto your dictatorship, the quicker it runs out.

Thus, as has been mentioned, a place and its people need to constantly reinvent themselves. If they don't and become stale or place themselves on a pedestal, bad things happen. That is what happened to Dayton circa the 1970's and on to about today. Or at least 5-10 years ago. Perhaps that pedestal effect is already happening in Silicon Valley. It has come close a few times with death (dot com bubble, anyone?). But usually finds a way. Eventually, that may not happen. Power turns. The same holds true for most intangibles.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2015, 12:51 PM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
1,821 posts, read 3,892,820 times
Reputation: 853
Also, doesn't this qualify as international news? Last time I checked, we weren't a member of the Commonwealth! :P
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2015, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,879 posts, read 2,124,530 times
Reputation: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightflyer View Post
Also, doesn't this qualify as international news? Last time I checked, we weren't a member of the Commonwealth! :P
I doubt if Dayton will hit the BBC that often (no matter how many messages I post on British message boards), meanwhile a single thread for really national news is a good idea. And, the way I read it, the reporter actually visited Dayton.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2015, 04:31 PM
 
1,328 posts, read 1,046,397 times
Reputation: 288
This is kind of off topic, but I thought it was cool.

Local museum to be featured on Travel Channel | Seen and Overheard
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2015, 09:00 PM
 
3,515 posts, read 3,787,736 times
Reputation: 1813
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightflyer View Post
Also, doesn't this qualify as international news? Last time I checked, we weren't a member of the Commonwealth! :P
haha yeah it's been a couple hundred years!

Sorry about that. This should really be the "Yo, People Be Watchin' Us" thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2015, 07:34 PM
 
39 posts, read 93,712 times
Reputation: 42
Good article. I can't recall the research done and by whom, but I have read that this migration from the Midwest and Northeast is just part of the larger migration pattern of the latter part of the 20th century to the present. People have become more mobile and wanting to move to warmer climates. Therefore, the growth patterns have benefited the American West and Southwest, and Southeast, to their benefit and our detriment.

That coupled with globalization hurt the American Northeast and Midwest. The good thing is, we have that history, infrastructure, and culture remaining from all of that old wealth. We also are not shrinking in the metropolitan area as whole, but population remains stable. We can use where we have been to remain and become a strong stable and innovative city. We may not be the innovative hub of the country as we once were, but it is worth a shot! At the least we can remain stable, strong and relevant.

Our strength is also our location known as one of the key "centroids" in American logistics. We occupy a critical hub in commerce nationwide. Playing on our history, infrastructure, culture, location, and resources (water!) we are well positioned as long as we have strong leadership and advocacy.

Being from Dayton, I moved away for college and work, and moved back in my early 30s. I love it here and particularly am excited about the things going on downtown. One thing we can do to help is support local and support downtown. A strong and vibrant core will attract other young professionals. Nothing discourages me more than to see all of these new bland buildings going up and all these new developments in old farmlands, when we have beautiful historical buildings in the city core all around us. If we start investing in those again and rehabbing them, we can reverse the trend of decay and poverty gripping the urban core. Who wants a boring cookie cutter home/building in the burbs or exurbs when we have such rich history in the city?

The Brookings Institute did a study about Ohio and its cities a few years back, and one of their findings and recommendations was to redevelop, not develop new. We do not have the population growth patterns in Ohio (due to the larger American demographic and migration shifts mentioned earlier) to sustain such new developments. We are simply taking away from other areas and causing them to decay. We do not need to build more! restore what we have! That was the gist of their message. Hope our leaders are listening.

Last edited by stepheninohio; 04-15-2015 at 07:42 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2015, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,016,458 times
Reputation: 2334
Quote:
"You're the only one who can change your destiny - the only one who can find your purpose in this world. No one to hold your hand or pick you up. You must pick yourself up time after time and dust yourself off. Because you're the one who's going to do this.

"You're the one who's going to win this battle. You're the one who's going to make you happy and others may be there to help you but you're the one who has to do this, not them. So get up, get ready and show them how it's done because you CAN DO THIS."
I think that's something that the whole city should take to heart.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2015, 11:32 AM
 
6,830 posts, read 4,424,744 times
Reputation: 11988
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepheninohio View Post
... migration from the Midwest and Northeast is just part of the larger migration pattern of the latter part of the 20th century to the present. People have become more mobile and wanting to move to warmer climates. Therefore, the growth patterns have benefited the American West and Southwest, and Southeast, to their benefit and our detriment.

That coupled with globalization hurt the American Northeast and Midwest. ....
Well-said! If the linked article is to be believed - and there's good reason to do so - then the implication is that Dayton's storied businesses left town not because of corrupt politicians, high taxes or local mismanagement, but because of complex geopolitical and demographic causes far beyond the control of Dayton or Ohio.

In brief, Dayton's history seems to partition into 3 segments: (1) entrepreneurial spunk and rapid growth, which attracted (2) a vast influx of blue-collar labor, which led to (3) stasis and a cultural shift away from tinkering/researching towards rote production and eventually decline.

Dayton's inventors and early businessmen were in modern parlance "knowledge workers". Their successors were not. The latter were vulnerable to national and global competition, and lost abjectly.

The above not withstanding, my personal story is the exact opposite. I'm a product of the prosperous glamor-cities of the East Coast and California. I came to Dayton because of Wright-Patterson AFB - no other reason, period. My connection to Dayton is now decades-long, but it almost entirely revolves around W-P and it's oft-cited "bubble". So there is something that Dayton has been doing "right", in terms of civic involvement and appeal to newcomers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2015, 04:30 PM
 
3,515 posts, read 3,787,736 times
Reputation: 1813
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepheninohio View Post
Good article. I can't recall the research done and by whom, but I have read that this migration from the Midwest and Northeast is just part of the larger migration pattern of the latter part of the 20th century to the present. People have become more mobile and wanting to move to warmer climates. Therefore, the growth patterns have benefited the American West and Southwest, and Southeast, to their benefit and our detriment.

That coupled with globalization hurt the American Northeast and Midwest. The good thing is, we have that history, infrastructure, and culture remaining from all of that old wealth. We also are not shrinking in the metropolitan area as whole, but population remains stable. We can use where we have been to remain and become a strong stable and innovative city. We may not be the innovative hub of the country as we once were, but it is worth a shot! At the least we can remain stable, strong and relevant.

Our strength is also our location known as one of the key "centroids" in American logistics. We occupy a critical hub in commerce nationwide. Playing on our history, infrastructure, culture, location, and resources (water!) we are well positioned as long as we have strong leadership and advocacy.

Being from Dayton, I moved away for college and work, and moved back in my early 30s. I love it here and particularly am excited about the things going on downtown. One thing we can do to help is support local and support downtown. A strong and vibrant core will attract other young professionals. Nothing discourages me more than to see all of these new bland buildings going up and all these new developments in old farmlands, when we have beautiful historical buildings in the city core all around us. If we start investing in those again and rehabbing them, we can reverse the trend of decay and poverty gripping the urban core. Who wants a boring cookie cutter home/building in the burbs or exurbs when we have such rich history in the city?

The Brookings Institute did a study about Ohio and its cities a few years back, and one of their findings and recommendations was to redevelop, not develop new. We do not have the population growth patterns in Ohio (due to the larger American demographic and migration shifts mentioned earlier) to sustain such new developments. We are simply taking away from other areas and causing them to decay. We do not need to build more! restore what we have! That was the gist of their message. Hope our leaders are listening.
Nice post! Welcome to the Dayton forum, don't be a stranger haha.

And to your bolded point, I sincerely hope they are too. This forum gets a lot of page views, so I like to think maybe all of this banter makes a difference. This city has been getting better about re-purposing, probably some of the new wealth and optimism post-recession paired with the frugal mindset and risk adverseness still lingering from 2008.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Dayton
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top