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View Poll Results: Should Dayton's city council pass a resolution correcting Trump's first flight in NC claim?
Yes, Dayton's City Council should grasp this opportunity to explain Dayton's claim to first flight. 8 40.00%
No, the common belief is that first flight took place in NC and Dayton should forget it 6 30.00%
I don't care 6 30.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-23-2017, 12:11 PM
 
4,533 posts, read 3,495,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merewenc View Post
I grew up in NE Ohio and knew that motto as a kid. We had to learn that, and the history behind it, in Ohio History in 7th grade. Are you even from Ohio?

Also, you could ask my husband whether "no one complains" about the stupid NC license plates. He only has to hear me mutter and give a five minute lecture on it every time I see one, and we don't even live inOhio right now. It's so inaccurate it's not even funny. There is absolutely no significance to a flight lasting less than the time it takes me to chew a piece of double mint gum into tastelessness. Having a piece of geography where ONE test was made, even the first, is nothing. The significance is in the invention itself, the place where it was created, and the place where not only that model but later, actually successful models were tested. And the phrase "First in Flight" isn't even accurate. It should be "First in Powered Flight", since the Wright brother performed other flight experiments in other places. And once they had their good test flight, they never went back. Tell me how that makes NC a significant place for aviation. The motto might as well be "We Have Great Wind!"
Ohio native. My point isn't an endorsement of First in Flight or Birthplace of Aviation, reason I voted ''don't care'' in the poll.

The point is why are Dayton and Ohio pols supposed to rail against Donald Trump for stating the NC line about flight. Where were they to squash NC's slogan when that it started its First in Flight slogan.

Of course the point is derailed and I'm supposed to defend NC's slogan. Not saying NC is First in Flight. Don't care. Please review posts, if you care, before you rail-on about it and de-rail the topic.

Maybe you learned Dayton's motto in Ohio History-totally awesome! But's there are 49 other states that didn't teach Dayton's slogan as part of its education curriculum. You should forward your post to NC and OH and leaders so the President can retract his statement...maybe NC will change the slogan to ''FIRST IN POWERED FLIGHT''...lol.

Last edited by Kamms; 02-23-2017 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 02-23-2017, 01:23 PM
 
1,011 posts, read 954,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woxyroxme View Post
Trump said something stupid? Color me shocked
If I could lay a brick on the "reputation" button, I would :P
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Old 02-23-2017, 01:56 PM
 
1,842 posts, read 1,446,658 times
Reputation: 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWOH View Post
Also, Birthplace of Aviation was on Ohio license plates for ages.
I'd be a fan of bringing it back, in larger font.
It won't do any good.

This is largely a US forum, but in any comments to any article about American achievements, inevitably, someone from Brazil will say that the first flight came from the mind of Santos Dumont and before that ( or just after that ), someone from France will say that it was Clément Ader.

I think that the idea that anyone gets all puffed-up with pride over some invention that happened over 100 years ago in the same general area is nuts.

My house was a 10 minute walk away from Hawthorn Hill. I love the tale of the Wright Brothers and their achievement. I never derived any pride from that tale. I derive intellectual stimulation from great achievements, no matter who did it or where.

Every time I visit Dayton, I get real tired of the over-sell and all the W-F replicas all over ... of course, I'm a consummate curmudgeon. I might just have a bad attitude. I'm pretty sure I do.
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Old 02-23-2017, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,895 posts, read 2,192,863 times
Reputation: 605
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDtheftV View Post
It won't do any good.

This is largely a US forum, but in any comments to any article about American achievements, inevitably, someone from Brazil will say that the first flight came from the mind of Santos Dumont and before that ( or just after that ), someone from France will say that it was Clément Ader.

I think that the idea that anyone gets all puffed-up with pride over some invention that happened over 100 years ago in the same general area is nuts.

My house was a 10 minute walk away from Hawthorn Hill. I love the tale of the Wright Brothers and their achievement. I never derived any pride from that tale. I derive intellectual stimulation from great achievements, no matter who did it or where.

Every time I visit Dayton, I get real tired of the over-sell and all the W-F replicas all over ... of course, I'm a consummate curmudgeon. I might just have a bad attitude. I'm pretty sure I do.
"...all puffed-up with pride...."

In some cases perhaps awe rather than pride.
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Old 02-23-2017, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Southwestern OH
247 posts, read 179,989 times
Reputation: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
Ohio native. My point isn't an endorsement of First in Flight or Birthplace of Aviation, reason I voted ''don't care'' in the poll.

The point is why are Dayton and Ohio pols supposed to rail against Donald Trump for stating the NC line about flight. Where were they to squash NC's slogan when that it started its First in Flight slogan.

Of course the point is derailed and I'm supposed to defend NC's slogan. Not saying NC is First in Flight. Don't care. Please review posts, if you care, before you rail-on about it and de-rail the topic.

Maybe you learned Dayton's motto in Ohio History-totally awesome! But's there are 49 other states that didn't teach Dayton's slogan as part of its education curriculum. You should forward your post to NC and OH and leaders so the President can retract his statement...maybe NC will change the slogan to ''FIRST IN POWERED FLIGHT''...lol.
The point of the post was derailed by post #3. I did read all the posts. Most people seem to care more about who gets the credit than whether Trump made another ill-informed public statement. This isn't shocking anyone anymore. Kind of like when Bush Jr. would fumble through a speech. We kind of got used to it.

And I know that, sadly, very few people in the world care about the actual events in history. It's much easier to go along with what everyone else thinks--again, something Trump is ever so good at doing. This won't be the first nor the last time that this particular failing of his is pointed out. It just happened to have something to do with Dayton this time, which is why anyone bothered to post about it in the first place. Since catching Trump and Co out in falsehoods is a very easy thing to do right now, OP's question was whether or not the Dayton community should use the momentum of Trump's notoriety to push knowledge of TRUE history to the public on something that OP apparently has an opinion on. OP also asked if other people have any feelings on the subject:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Does North Carolina's claim to first flight offend Dayton residents?
Thus, explaining that yes, the claim by NC is annoying to some of us from Ohio is still on topic as posted by the OP. What isn't on topic, and does derail the discussion somewhat, is pointless questions asking why everyone has to hate on Donald Trump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
Why is it only now that this is an issue? Oh, because it's Donald Trump.
Taking this tone shows that you don't understand the point of the OP at all. You're just assuming that it's a mindless hate on Trump. Maybe not. Maybe OP thinks that taking advantage of the situation could at least bring something good for Dayton, i.e. getting out the message that OP thinks is important. It wouldn't be the first time that a politician's faults were used to the advantage of other people, from their friends to their adversaries, and I very much doubt that it would be the last.

Furthermore,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
No one seemed to have a problem with NC's ''First in Flight'' license plates all these past several years. Why haven't the Dayton media and politicians, let alone Ohio politicians pick up on the NC's license plates?

NC's license plate logo has done more to have people think the first flight was there=the battle for 1st flight claim is over.
All I did was give anecdotal evidence that yes, there are people who have been annoyed for a while. Usually the people who live near Wright-Patt or who are native Ohioans who live near a military base with lots of NC servicemembers. It gets talked about/complained about/discussed. No, no one has been able or willing to front a movement to educate the general public as to why NC is, in the end, wrong, but that is why OP asked their question. Again, using Donald Trump's notoriety could get out the desired message in a way that the general public would remember. The idea actually has some merit, although I doubt it would be taken seriously unless a national news outlet picked up the headline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
What's next, Trump said it's partly cloudy when it's actually partly sunny?

Give it a rest.
Now continually harping on this and how everyone should leave poor Donald Trump alone when the man publicizes his failings at every turn? That's derailing the topic.
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Old 02-23-2017, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Southwestern OH
247 posts, read 179,989 times
Reputation: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDtheftV View Post
It won't do any good.
This is largely a US forum, but in any comments to any article about American achievements, inevitably, someone from Brazil will say that the first flight came from the mind of Santos Dumont and before that ( or just after that ), someone from France will say that it was Clément Ader.
Yeah, so much was being tested around the same time frame that it is difficult to pin just one "founder" for a lot of things, to include automobiles and computers. I think in this case, though, that having the first mass marketed version counts for a lot.

Quote:
I think that the idea that anyone gets all puffed-up with pride over some invention that happened over 100 years ago in the same general area is nuts.
Funny thing is, that's usually my take on things. I'm not the team-spirit, gotta-love-everything-about-something type. It surprised me how much I was annoyed by North Carolina's quarter (remember back when there were the state quarters?) and the license plate. I think it's because they're trying to claim more than actually exists. I don't like exaggeration of facts when it comes to history. Something happened or it didn't. It had a certain effect or it didn't. It could have had many effects, but didn't affect EVERYTHING IN THE WHOLE WORLD. (Being very general here, not necessarily talking the first airplane part.)

Quote:
Every time I visit Dayton, I get real tired of the over-sell and all the W-F replicas all over ... of course, I'm a consummate curmudgeon. I might just have a bad attitude. I'm pretty sure I do.
I get like this over pretty much everything that's over-marketed these days. Go to South Dakota? You'll have Mt Rushmore shoved down your throat. Go to DC? You'll be inundated by Washington Monument and Lincoln Memorial and Capitol building and White House EVERYTHING. Oh, and cherry blossoms, even when it isn't cherry blossom season. Go anywhere in Maryland and it's crabs this and crabs that and more crabs. I think it is, unfortunately, the nature of our society to push propaganda to attract tourists and new residents. A lot of time it's just overkill, but try telling the state tourism departments that.
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Old 02-23-2017, 08:26 PM
 
4,533 posts, read 3,495,272 times
Reputation: 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by merewenc View Post
The point of the post was derailed by post #3. I did read all the posts. Most people seem to care more about who gets the credit than whether Trump made another ill-informed public statement. This isn't shocking anyone anymore. Kind of like when Bush Jr. would fumble through a speech. We kind of got used to it.

And I know that, sadly, very few people in the world care about the actual events in history. It's much easier to go along with what everyone else thinks--again, something Trump is ever so good at doing. This won't be the first nor the last time that this particular failing of his is pointed out. It just happened to have something to do with Dayton this time, which is why anyone bothered to post about it in the first place. Since catching Trump and Co out in falsehoods is a very easy thing to do right now, OP's question was whether or not the Dayton community should use the momentum of Trump's notoriety to push knowledge of TRUE history to the public on something that OP apparently has an opinion on. OP also asked if other people have any feelings on the subject:



Thus, explaining that yes, the claim by NC is annoying to some of us from Ohio is still on topic as posted by the OP. What isn't on topic, and does derail the discussion somewhat, is pointless questions asking why everyone has to hate on Donald Trump.



Taking this tone shows that you don't understand the point of the OP at all. You're just assuming that it's a mindless hate on Trump. Maybe not. Maybe OP thinks that taking advantage of the situation could at least bring something good for Dayton, i.e. getting out the message that OP thinks is important. It wouldn't be the first time that a politician's faults were used to the advantage of other people, from their friends to their adversaries, and I very much doubt that it would be the last.

Furthermore,



All I did was give anecdotal evidence that yes, there are people who have been annoyed for a while. Usually the people who live near Wright-Patt or who are native Ohioans who live near a military base with lots of NC servicemembers. It gets talked about/complained about/discussed. No, no one has been able or willing to front a movement to educate the general public as to why NC is, in the end, wrong, but that is why OP asked their question. Again, using Donald Trump's notoriety could get out the desired message in a way that the general public would remember. The idea actually has some merit, although I doubt it would be taken seriously unless a national news outlet picked up the headline.



Now continually harping on this and how everyone should leave poor Donald Trump alone when the man publicizes his failings at every turn? That's derailing the topic.
LOL...now Trump's failings include NC's ''first in flight''...using this to get the message out to the public that NC is ''First Powered Flight'' so the spotlight can be on Dayton...this country has gone krazy!
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
135 posts, read 105,649 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDtheftV View Post
I think that the idea that anyone gets all puffed-up with pride over some invention that happened over 100 years ago in the same general area is nuts.
As I've always liked to say, "Ohio: you only call it 'flyover country' because we invented the airplane".
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:51 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,656,445 times
Reputation: 4067
Quote:
Originally Posted by merewenc View Post
Yeah, so much was being tested around the same time frame that it is difficult to pin just one "founder" for a lot of things, to include automobiles and computers. I think in this case, though, that having the first mass marketed version counts for a lot.



Funny thing is, that's usually my take on things. I'm not the team-spirit, gotta-love-everything-about-something type. It surprised me how much I was annoyed by North Carolina's quarter (remember back when there were the state quarters?) and the license plate. I think it's because they're trying to claim more than actually exists. I don't like exaggeration of facts when it comes to history. Something happened or it didn't. It had a certain effect or it didn't. It could have had many effects, but didn't affect EVERYTHING IN THE WHOLE WORLD. (Being very general here, not necessarily talking the first airplane part.)



I get like this over pretty much everything that's over-marketed these days. Go to South Dakota? You'll have Mt Rushmore shoved down your throat. Go to DC? You'll be inundated by Washington Monument and Lincoln Memorial and Capitol building and White House EVERYTHING. Oh, and cherry blossoms, even when it isn't cherry blossom season. Go anywhere in Maryland and it's crabs this and crabs that and more crabs. I think it is, unfortunately, the nature of our society to push propaganda to attract tourists and new residents. A lot of time it's just overkill, but try telling the state tourism departments that.
You got it.

We study history to learn from it, and the achievement of the Wright brothers was one of the greatest in American history. It's shameful IMO that Ohioans and Daytonians not only don't defend Dayton's preeminent role in the development of the first airplane, they largely don't even understand it. We all should emulate and learn from heroes, so children need to be taught history such as that of the Wright brothers.

Admittedly, I was using Trump's comments about the Wrights to promote my frustration with the misunderstanding about Dayton's and therefore Ohio's actual place in the development of the airplane.

Here's the point. The Wright Flyer III was unequivocally the first machine recognized by the world as an airplane. It was developed and first flew in Dayton. Without it, the Wrights would have been a footnote to history.

And for readers of the Cleveland forum, it's obvious that Kamms is a hard-core Trumpie. He likely followed me here. Sorry for that.
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Old 02-25-2017, 09:34 AM
 
1,842 posts, read 1,446,658 times
Reputation: 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant View Post
"...all puffed-up with pride...."

In some cases perhaps awe rather than pride.
Very well put.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merewenc View Post
The point of the post was derailed by post #3. I did read all the posts. Most people seem to care more about who gets the credit than whether Trump ... Bush Jr. ... something Trump .... Trump and Co ... hate on Donald Trump. .... mindless hate on Trump. .... Donald Trump's notoriety ... poor Donald Trump .... That's derailing the topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
LOL...now Trump's failings include NC's ''first in flight''...using this ... ''First Powered Flight'' ... spotlight .... Dayton...this country has gone krazy!
It is unnecessary to quote all bajillion lines of a post just to find an excuse to write the 'T'-word yet again as original text.

"The text editor is an energy field created by all keyboards, it surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the words together so that readers of the text don't need to keep reading the same text over and over and over."

I got tired of the C-word 1992-1999. After that, the B-word was tiresome. Most recently before the T-word really got going, the B-word was super-annoying. Now I cringe whenever someone mentions cards, roads or trails that cross barriers, and having a hot hand.

It's kinda cool that the person who rides around in AF#1 ( technically VC-25 ) rides in a descendent of the Wright Flier. It's often mentioned that the first flight in Kitty Hawk took place inside an area too small to contain AF#1.

The Wrights put together all the right stuff to put a plane in the air. I think I would have liked to meet them. I know I wouldn't have wanted to meet many other inventors or tech visionaries like Steve Jobs or Thomas Edison. No way. Nikola Tesla? .... I think - yes. ( points, if you knew that "Nikola" goes with Tesla { without googling } and did so long before the car company was started )

Yup. I'm still in awe. If it's OK, I'll use that ( with proper credits, of course ).
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