25 Best US Cities for Millenials - yay Dayton, Cincy and Columbus! (Cincinnati: home, college)

[Schmooky]

Russians? There are boatloads in Alaska, and lots of artists too. The art scene is a much bigger part of daily life in Homer or Juneau than NYC. And you can have first generation Russian immigrants and fourth generation settlers all in the same area. Southeast Alaska also fits your mild climate requirement, which was a big draw for me when I first moved along with the art scene and the local university.

Once upon a time I was an artist (mostly shelved for space with a gazillion kids but it's where I began and what I will resume once they're launched) and with that info I'd really say you're overselling NYC now. Portland, Asheville or even Ann Arbor are going to be better fits and with more reasonable cost of living if "the Intelligentsia" are your bag, and the latter two are reasonably close to schools and employment for aeronautics.

Just saying. Your list isn't really focal to expensive coastal cities. There is some overlap but I don't think it is as much as you think. And if you can prioritize values you can probably find a good relocation spot even on a side hustle income. LA and NYC aren't it, unfortunately.

Good luck to you

[SWOH]

Wow, what a thread to see! A few days off and life gets exciting around here haha.

Lots of good points made. It would be nice if intellectualism, physical fitness, an active social life, and open mindedness were valued around here as much as San Francisco... or even Albuquerque. So I understand and agree with a lot of ohio_peasant's points. But if you look around that stuff is here too, it's just not as celebrated or common.

But that being said, I can see our local mainstream culture moving that way. Less time is being spent on yardwork and far flung trips as more time is being spent on socializing and entertainment locally. People are becoming passionate about our local food and alcohol choices, our quirky festivals and attractions, and are patronizing the chain stuff too to an extent where we are getting big attractions in the Daytonnati metro well before cities of comparable size. These more recognizable amenities help outsiders feel more comfortable too. The walls of our perpetual 1950's vibe are starting to break... thank goodness.

[Natural510]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

We're all the products of our respective backgrounds. I'm reluctant to delve much into biographical details, but suffice it to say that my perspective was heavily influenced by grad school in Los Angeles (now some 20 years ago), and the sort of people whom I met there. These folks had a classical education, including Latin and Greek, though all were engineers or physicists. After graduation - these were the dot.com boom years - these students either went to Wall Street, to management-consultancies, or professorships. Few ended up in the Midwest, let alone the small-town Midwest.

While most assuredly a creative person can find entertainment and enlightenment by him/herself, going to museums and concerts alone, etc., the social element is crucial - at least for some. I am not complaining about Dayton's putative lack of things to do. But I am complaining about Dayton's lack of the sort of social opportunities that I had in grad school. It's a blue-collar, family-raising town.

As for the real-estate question, yes, of course there are better opportunities in rental-housing or in the stock market. Please have a look at my copious postings over in the Investment forum, regarding index-funds. But the point is that in the more prosperous metro areas, homeowners get paid merely for sitting on their proverbial behinds. An enterprising, imaginative and energetic person will always find opportunities - whether in Dayton, in San Francisco, or in Somalia. My point instead is about lazy and unimaginative persons, such as yours-truly.

As for the cost of maintenance, well, a $10,000 new roof is a lot more painful on a $120K house in Beavercreek, than on the same house - costing $1,500,000 - in Palo Alto. A $6000 property tax bill in California is a lot less painful than a $3000 property tax bill in Ohio - on a house that's worth 5X less. Isn't that backwards? No, because the California tax is lower as a percentage of house-value. In the vignette cited above, a single person without kids bought a house. Of course that's inefficient, whether said house is in Seattle or Dayton - due to the cultural paradigms of American housing.

None of these factors are slights against Dayton in particular. They hold regarding any Heartland area, anything outside of the top 2-3 dozen growing metro areas in America (mostly on the coasts). The assertion isn't that Dayton is somehow inferior to its sister cities, its competing markets in the region, or even in distant regions. Rather, that Dayton isn't special, like say New York City is special.

So why not just move? I'm an aeronautical engineer. I came here because unfortunately the Wright Brothers settled here. It's the curse of my field, that the best jobs are in America's Daytons, not its New York Cities. Now if only I'd done the same as my grad-school stablemates 20 years ago, having taken a job on Wall Street....

The anti-intellectual vibe in the area is a reality, no doubt, and one of the main things I found myself missing (along with quality of food) when I moved here from the Bay Area, but it can still be found in pockets and among certain social circles. The Meetup website has some cool gatherings of like minded people, along with certain locations and areas more than others. For instance, I'm much more likely to talk politics or art with someone at the brewery in Yellow Springs or the Ghostlight Cafe in Dayton than I am at a Frickers out in the burbs.

[warren zee]

We aren't millennials by a long shot, but we have been really happy in Ohio for almost 5 years now. We share many of the same tastes as millennials - we like ethnic food, craft beer, walkable areas, older homes, cultural and artistic events, and Trader Joe's and Whole Foods as well as Farmer's Markets.

We moved here from Long Island, a suburb of NYC, and we are very pleased.

The mortgage payment for our house in Ohio is LESS than the rental payment of our first 3 room apartment in NY - and that was back in 1986!!!

We also like the fact that OH is not subject to any extreme weather. Floods, fires, hurricanes or tornadoes (at least not in our area) Ohioans are friendly, open to new comers and not extreme when it comes to religious or political beliefs. It's very "live and let live".

I really wish people would stop their fascination with the sunbelt, and look at the Midwest - and Ohio in particular.

[walker1962]

Originally Posted by Natural510

The Sunbelt is not sustainable. What natural disasters won't destroy, water shortages will. Sure, Dayton is better for families...there's nothing wrong with that. If singles and the childless grow bored with Dayton's brewpub scene and handful of clubs and ethnic restaurants, they can always move to Columbus. I agree with most everything Schmooky posted; why would I pay $1800/mo to rent a house in Maryland or Oregon what I pay in less than $600 in mortgage in the Dayton area? I can shop at the same Trader Joe's and drink similar IPA here as I would there.

The Sunbelt is not sustainable due to natural disasters and water? Well what do YOU define as the SunBelt? It is the desert south west that in Arizona/Utah, Nevada and California? Or is it Texas eastward to the Carolinas? If it is the former, yes, climate issues are a real concern. If it is the latter, natural disaster issues are lot more state specific - All of Florida, southern Louisiana, and the upper coast of Texas are the most vulnerable. But the Country's energy sector is based in Louisiana/Texas and there is too much infrastructure committed. Don't get your hopes up that in the next 20 year people will gravitate to Dayton or Ohio for that matter.

[Natural510]

Originally Posted by walker1962

The Sunbelt is not sustainable due to natural disasters and water? Well what do YOU define as the SunBelt? It is the desert south west that in Arizona/Utah, Nevada and California? Or is it Texas eastward to the Carolinas? If it is the former, yes, climate issues are a real concern. If it is the latter, natural disaster issues are lot more state specific - All of Florida, southern Louisiana, and the upper coast of Texas are the most vulnerable. But the Country's energy sector is based in Louisiana/Texas and there is too much infrastructure committed. Don't get your hopes up that in the next 20 year people will gravitate to Dayton or Ohio for that matter.

They can do whatever they like. The mass exodus to geographical areas which require air conditioning and stolen water to sustain themselves go against human nature and our historic tendency to seek areas where water and agriculture proliferate. Water will be the new oil this century, so it will be interesting to see how everything plays out.

[RDriesenUD]

Originally Posted by warren zee

We aren't millennials by a long shot, but we have been really happy in Ohio for almost 5 years now. We share many of the same tastes as millennials - we like ethnic food, craft beer, walkable areas, older homes, cultural and artistic events, and Trader Joe's and Whole Foods as well as Farmer's Markets.

We moved here from Long Island, a suburb of NYC, and we are very pleased.

The mortgage payment for our house in Ohio is LESS than the rental payment of our first 3 room apartment in NY - and that was back in 1986!!!

We also like the fact that OH is not subject to any extreme weather. Floods, fires, hurricanes or tornadoes (at least not in our area) Ohioans are friendly, open to new comers and not extreme when it comes to religious or political beliefs. It's very "live and let live".

I really wish people would stop their fascination with the sunbelt, and look at the Midwest - and Ohio in particular.

Great post. I agree. I think this area of the United States is still looked at like it is the 70's and 80's. I love Dayton/Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh.

[wrightflyer]

Originally Posted by RDriesenUD

Great post. I agree. I think this area of the United States is still looked at like it is the 70's and 80's. I love Dayton/Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh.

Makes me wonder? Is that why Stranger Things is set in 1980's Indiana? Is the west coast only able to imagine the Midwest circa 1984?

(LOL, doubtful, but this post made me think in that direction! Nostalgia, yeesh.)

[RDriesenUD]

LOL. I doubt it, but that is funny.

[warren zee]

Originally Posted by Natural510

They can do whatever they like. The mass exodus to geographical areas which require air conditioning and stolen water to sustain themselves go against human nature and our historic tendency to seek areas where water and agriculture proliferate. Water will be the new oil this century, so it will be interesting to see how everything plays out.

I agree with this completely!

Concerning the Sunbelt, most of the Sunbelt lies inside another belt - The Bible Belt. That would include the Carolinas. I've had friends who were not terribly religious who moved their for a more temperate (warmer) climate, while looking for Mayberry, and were met with a less than friendly reception.
My wife enjoys church and has made many friends through her friendly Ohio church. I may attend on Christmas Eve or a special event and I get no pressure to join. The men are friendly, but not pushy.

They were grilled about their religious preferences and subjected to comments about "Yankees".

Additionally, they found Summer way too hot and long.

Older walkable neighborhoods were hard to find. So many cookie cutter subdivisions, on very small properties. Loads of chain restaurants and a lack of diverse food.

Do I see a time when people will come rushing into Dayton or Columbus? When you say it that way, it sounds hyperbolic and sarcastic.

Do I see a time when people priced out of the coasts will move to Ohio? I am alredy seeing that now.