Anyone from Dayton? (Trotwood, Miamisburg, Salem: city hall, technology jobs, college)

[willabee]

Originally Posted by Giesela

I see what your saying willabee but playing ostrich or cheerleading doesn't count as being part of the solution in my book. Can't solve a problem until you recognize it.

No, not "ostrich" or "cheerleading". I understand the problems Dayton has and choose to live in Dayton anyway. I don't have rose colored glasses but prefer to involve myself to be part of the solution.

I've seen lived in cities a lot larger than Dayton and you had many of the same or similar problems except the cost of living was a lot higher.

So which of Dayton's problems am I not recognizing? Ok let's see - high unemployement, high crime rate, schools that have a poor performance on state report cards, some areas have high vacancy rate with abandoned homes, .... uhhh what else?....am I missing something? Big deal. To me the positives far out weigh the overblown negatives that are inherent in most if not all urban areas in our country.

[Giesela]

I was told that the township school district around New Carlisle, i.e. Clark county Bethel Township has also been trying to improve its "grade" (second hand verbal info, take for what you will). Miami Bethel is usually seen as much more desirable because of schools. It would be nice for Clark county to up its grade which would lessen the risk of buying if you ever plan on reselling - although that does cut both ways as then I may never be able to afford a little place in the country!

[Giesela]

Originally Posted by willabee

No, not "ostrich" or "cheerleading". I understand the problems Dayton has and choose to live in Dayton anyway. I don't have rose colored glasses but prefer to involve myself to be part of the solution.

I've seen lived in cities a lot larger than Dayton and you had many of the same or similar problems except the cost of living was a lot higher.

So which of Dayton's problems am I not recognizing? Ok let's see - high unemployement, high crime rate, schools that have a poor performance on state report cards, some areas have high vacancy rate with abandoned homes, .... uhhh what else?....am I missing something? Big deal. To me the positives far out weigh the overblown negatives that are inherent in most if not all urban areas in our country.

I agree with the assessment that Dayton is much the same as many other places with (and even without) aging midwest manufacturing woes. And all such places usually have good points as well as negatives. Certainly Dayton has good points. But I think there is higher crime rate than many similar places. Whether its the I-75/I-70 corridor, long slide in job loss, or other reasons can all be debated endlessly with no sure answer. As someone who has lived in several other midwestern cities (mostly smaller) I have to say watching the Dayton news can be a bit of a shock fest in comparison. I'm sure people from other perhaps bigger places with similar crime rates dismiss this as normal. It depends on your perspective.
Many recommendations to new people are for the eastern and southern suburbs, Springboro, Centerville, Bellbrook. I don't know that these are really "Dayton".
Dayton is loved by many people which is great. And I certainly want all places including Dayton to do well. But its not for everyone even with problems aside as we all have different tolerance levels and preferences. People come to internet and need to receive all the perspectives. Pointing these out to people asking questions does not make us bad, nor should a range of opinions be dismissed or judged.

[willabee]

Originally Posted by Giesela

I agree with the assessment that Dayton is much the same as many other places with (and even without) aging midwest manufacturing woes. And all such places usually have good points as well as negatives. Certainly Dayton has good points.

agreed.

Originally Posted by Giesela

But I think there is higher crime rate than many similar places. Whether its the I-75/I-70 corridor, long slide in job loss, or other reasons can all be debated endlessly with no sure answer.

Yes, this is an issue that needs to be addressed by citizens, police, and local government in unison. It's certainly no worse than other areas this size. The crime stats are somewhat misleading to me based on how divided the area is. We can say that Dayton has a population of 150,000 and given the population the crime is horrendous. I think the other side of the coin is the metro area is close to 1,000,000. I think the stats are juked.

Originally Posted by Giesela

As someone who has lived in several other midwestern cities (mostly smaller) I have to say watching the Dayton news can be a bit of a shock fest in comparison. I'm sure people from other perhaps bigger places with similar crime rates dismiss this as normal. It depends on your perspective.

The local news media would drive past revitalization efforts and other positive happenings to get to the nearest crime scene. It's yellow journalism 101. They sensationalize crime at the expense of perhaps more news worthy stories. They are in lock step with other media outlets across the country.

Originally Posted by Giesela

Many recommendations to new people are for the eastern and southern suburbs, Springboro, Centerville, Bellbrook. I don't know that these are really "Dayton".
Dayton is loved by many people which is great. And I certainly want all places including Dayton to do well. But its not for everyone even with problems aside as we all have different tolerance levels and preferences. People come to internet and need to receive all the perspectives. Pointing these out to people asking questions does not make us bad, nor should a range of opinions be dismissed or judged.

I apologize for sounding judgmental. I should have chosen my words more carefully and not worded them as direct as I have. I will work on this. I would love for this forum to represent the Dayton area in an objective fashion - but let's face it, we are excited about what we like.

With that said, why do folks seem to feel the need to try redirect people from moving to Dayton into one of it's suburbs? Dayton offers urban living and a lot of people, like me, would prefer for a variety of reasons to live in the city, in spite of "city problems".

Here's an example.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/dayto...er-dayton.html

The thread parent stated they were a little suspect of the areas based on the home prices. There are some really good objective points of view in the thread. However, there are some posts that seem to get the individual to not even think about living in Dayton. There are a lot of people who know, understand, and love urban living and would simply like to know a little more about the area they are asking about w/o being redirected to somewhere they didn't ask about. Albeit, in this case they mentioned Oakwood as a consideration that they likely couldn't afford. Also, the neighborhoods they asked about do have some rough areas. However, these same neighborhoods also offer some of the best housing stock in the city and a majority of the streets are really, really nice. Especially in University Row.

Just some thoughts for consideration.

[Ohioan58]

The biggest recent "business news" for the Dayton area was the creation of a homeless shelter. That pretty much says it all: the biggest business in town is the amelioration of poverty.

Dayton may have lots of amenities, fine neighborhoods and livability, but without a supply of decent jobs, it's going to decay to the level of Middletown to the south. And Middletown is pretty much a wasteland due to a deteriorated economy.

That's not trashing Dayton. That's stone cold truth. Without a job, you don't live.

Dayton's greatness in the early 20th century was built by visionaries and leaders. I think that's what we need now, not some lame idea that the citizens all of a sudden will make it happen by mutual osmosis. An art gallery here, a neighborhood cleaned up there may be great, but it does not equate to jobs, employment, and a decent economy.

[willabee]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

The biggest recent "business news" for the Dayton area was the creation of a homeless shelter. That pretty much says it all: the biggest business in town is the amelioration of poverty.

I would recommend reading a little further. And actually, I am glad to see a new homeless shelter. However, let's not forget the potential job incubator.

UD job incubator at NCR site seen as potential economic boon

There is also consideration to be given to being designated as Ohio's aero-space hub.

Dayton Designated Ohio Aerospace Hub - Consumer News Story - WHIO Dayton

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

Dayton may have lots of amenities, fine neighborhoods and livability, but without a supply of decent jobs, it's going to decay to the level of Middletown to the south. And Middletown is pretty much a wasteland due to a deteriorated economy.

To me, Dayton lacks amenities. I often tell my wife Dayton has many big city problems with fewer of the amenities. Still, there is a lot of work underway in this area and I believe in time it will get better.

I am not sure we can compare Middletown with Dayton. What has been accomplished in Middletown? How resilient is it? On the other hand, Dayton is NOT the first city to lose jobs based on a manufacturing base. There are a lot of cities that have seen this happen and many of them are able to reinvent themselves, not to their former "glory", (which is so often the touchstone) but in a new direction where prosperity can be attained if you are able to change with things and work hard.

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

That's not trashing Dayton. That's stone cold truth. Without a job, you don't live.

Dayton's greatness in the early 20th century was built by visionaries and leaders. I think that's what we need now, not some lame idea that the citizens all of a sudden will make it happen by mutual osmosis. An art gallery here, a neighborhood cleaned up there may be great, but it does not equate to jobs, employment, and a decent economy.

I agree. We need more jobs. However, I can't slam the efforts certain of the citizenry are undertaking. Without desireable neighborhoods and cultural amenities you have less of a chance of attracting businesses to hire people and people from outside the area capable of expanding existing businesses.

To end, and not to turn political, but Mayor McLin has said on several occasions that she envisions Dayton becoming a boutique community.

Mayoral candidates McLin, Leitzell disagree on budget

That describes what you are making plain. A long lasting change in the region will not happen by adding some art galleries and doing alley sweeps. Please read the following link.

Urban Legend | The New America Foundation

On this account I am voting for Gary Leitzell, and Dave Esrati. I am also going to continue to get involved in all the alley sweeps I can and support other efforts to make Dayton a better place to live. That includes working with my wife to continue to grow our publishing related business here in Dayton. I am doing my part and that's all i know to do.

Thanks for posting your viewpoints. They definitely stimulate healthy debate and add objectivity to this forum.

[Giesela]

Willabee, I have ever been a small home, large yard with veggie garden etc. as much like "country" as I can get. I have in several moves thought maybe I should give the urban experience a try. Just once. Maybe I could try to be a little more hip LOL!
But my personal problem (and its just me) with Dayton is that I find the layout confusing and am constantly getting lost. Even my GPS (which I broke down and bought here) seems to get lost. Its probably got something to do with the rivers and railroads.
I find I-75 through town terrifying. So I don't go downtown though I often get curious and think about it. I even quit volunteering at the Humane Society because I hated the drive. Hey I'm just a big wimp.
I came here from Omaha. Like many "western" cities it is built on a big ol north south east west grid. Look at an address in the phone book and go right to it. It was great, I was never lost. The older downtown was a little more confusing but traffic and construction weren't too bad so I got along ok.

Question, in the older regentrified neighborhoods - how is parking? Seems a few of the rentals I read had on street parking. Do most of the older homes not have garages? Bigger city people may be used to that but not most suburbanites.

[Ohioan58]

Re: Willabee ...

Dayton needs employment for the masses, who populate neighborhoods and who create the tax base for the city. My point was that this is too large scale a need to expect grass roots efforts to provide a base of support.

Rhine McLin yapping about a "boutique city" is just pathetic. The city has to be regarded as "cool" first.

Incubators are always far reaching efforts. They pay off (maybe) in 10, 20 years and involve new forms of business and new technologies. And they are uncertain - a kind of economic lottery.

The high tech incubators won't solve Dayton's economic problems anyway. High tech employs too small a base of workers to be a general lift to the regional economy. WPAFB and its spinoff firms are kind of a big "economic clique" that generally just benefit AF people, scientists and engineers. The defense stuff is a closed community, even if you're an engineer - you need the right background already plus an existing security clearance.

[Giesela]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

WPAFB and its spinoff firms are kind of a big "economic clique" that generally just benefit AF people, scientists and engineers. The defense stuff is a closed community, even if you're an engineer - you need the right background already plus an existing security clearance.

I would have to agree with this. I only have a short experience with one outfit on WP but it is very sort of....inbred for a military outfit. I'm not sure I've ever seen second generation not ever military (1st or 2nd gen) employees before here. Been kinda strange.

[willabee]

Originally Posted by Giesela

Willabee, I have ever been a small home, large yard with veggie garden etc. as much like "country" as I can get. I have in several moves thought maybe I should give the urban experience a try. Just once. Maybe I could try to be a little more hip LOL!

Nothing wrong with that. The country has it's benefits. I lived in a small town around 60 miles north of Dayton for around 8 years or so. (job related) At first I really liked it and over time began to miss the city. It's different strokes. That is one thing I like about this area. You can do lots of outdoor activities and be in the country in a short drive. Funny on the large yard/small home thing...I'm the opposite - prefer large home on small lot. I hate landscaping/grass cutting....lol

Originally Posted by Giesela

But my personal problem (and its just me) with Dayton is that I find the layout confusing and am constantly getting lost. Even my GPS (which I broke down and bought here) seems to get lost. Its probably got something to do with the rivers and railroads.

Dayton's street layout can be a nightmare. One of the more confusing aspects is some of the streets change names as you enter another community. Gotten turned around before on account of that. I use gps and if it's an area I'm unfamiliar with I study google maps before going there...it helps. Yes, my gps loses me too.

Originally Posted by Giesela

I find I-75 through town terrifying. So I don't go downtown though I often get curious and think about it. I even quit volunteering at the Humane Society because I hated the drive. Hey I'm just a big wimp.
I came here from Omaha. Like many "western" cities it is built on a big ol north south east west grid. Look at an address in the phone book and go right to it. It was great, I was never lost. The older downtown was a little more confusing but traffic and construction weren't too bad so I got along ok.

I-75 is slowly getting better and shows promise once the construction is completed. As for going downtown, check out: Dayton MostMetro

You can get a bead on what's happening. Many of the festivals and other activities are very affordable and a lot of fun.

Originally Posted by Giesela

Question, in the older regentrified neighborhoods - how is parking? Seems a few of the rentals I read had on street parking. Do most of the older homes not have garages? Bigger city people may be used to that but not most suburbanites.

Many of the homes have garages in the alleys. I have a one car garage. I use it for storage and park on the street. Parking can be a little tight on the street depending on how narrow the street is and how occupied the neighborhood is. My block is really easy to park on and most everyone parks in front of their house. I guess garage storage is popular?...lol! Of course if neighbors have guests it throws it all in disarray. But overall the parking seems o.k. to me. Learning to parallel park is a must.