Chicago to Dayton? (Cincinnati, Dublin, Oregon: employment, neighborhoods, buying)
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As a DAYTONnatian, I can honestly say that Cincinnati is overrated. This area sounds ideal for you with its large, diverse, creative-class presence. Also, if Tech Town is ever built, it will provide many high-income tech-related jobs within walking distance (depending on your tolerance for walking).
I'm not sure of the local mentality of Dayton residents, but I don't think there's anyone claiming Cincinnati as the next coming of Christ.
The Oregon district can match or beat ANYTHING Cincinnati could offer,
and it is much safer than similar places in Cincinnati auch as, Over-the-Rhine,
where a riot happened in 2001.
Sure, how about we compare our trendiest neighborhood to another cities' most troubled? Sound fair?
... and I'm sure when 2038 rolls around, you'll still be quoting, "but the "riots" in 2001!" ...
Point is, I'm also familiar with Chi-town and I'm aware of the segregation that also plagues that amazing city. Most cities in the US struggle with this. Whether people want to admit it or not, racism exist in 2008, in NYC, Chicago, LA, Atlanta, Houston, and Philly. Shocking, I know.
Lisa_O, usually, when a poster slams another city in trying to help, their credibility goes down the drain in my opinion.
I would be leery of driving from Cincy to Dayton every day, but a lot of people do. Gas will only go up though.
Cincy-rise, I am just taking in all opinions. I do agree that segregation is apparent in most of the US. Chicago is not immune.
It seems there is some dispute as to the political climates of these towns. However, commute is very important and I can't imagine my husband having to make that commute and work the hours he will be working. Having a life is a nice thing. Whether that will occur in Chicago or Dayton is yet to be seen.
While many people have disagreed I can say that I am at least more interested in visiting the area and think even if I didn't live in Cincinnati that there would be many areas that would interest me and I look forward to seeing them.
Lisa_O, I live in Dayton's South Suburbs and there's not a lot I can add to the above experts. All I want to say is that commuting from Cincy to Dayton on I-75 is maybe a mild version of the Dan Ryan at rush hour... Especially with the ongoing construction areas that won't be finished for years. Welcome, though!
I actually looked into living in Cincy, the Clifton/UC Area and commuting to Dayton. I did a test drive during the rush hour and that was enough to convince me to stay in Dayton.
The drive is 45-50 minutes from Daytons south suburbs to Cincinnait downtown in optimal traffic at 65 -70 mph. During the rush hour there is a lot more congestion and jams and slowdowns, and thing can become quickly gridlocked in the event of accident. Ad to that the additional time navigating surface street stop & go traffic, and it just isn't worth the grind.
Best bet is to enjoy Cincinnati on weekends, easy drive on a Saturday morning to do things, like Findlay Market.
A big concern for us is food and wine. I know that there is a Whole Foods in Columbus but don't know what options are available in Dayton.
Food and Drink
If you mean ingredients for cooking and drinking, the best local ones have been mentioned, Dorothy Lane Market and Trader Joes. There is also the smallish 2nd Street Market which has speciality things. For more ethnic ingredients there is Mihoacan Market on Troy Street for Mexican (there are other little tiendas scattered aound, but this is the largest) and Charlies for a limited selection of German and Eastern European foods (including a cold cuts/sauasge case).
There are also two Indian markets I know of, both in the south suburbs, and an Italian deli, DiSalvos (yes, sad, just one).
For wine and beer, the best bet is Arrow Wine and the Dorothy Lane Market wine/beer section. I have heard of a good wine shop in the Shiloh area (N Main Street). For beer, microbrews and imports, there is the excellent Belmont Party supply. There is a little wine shop in nearby Yellow Springs as well.
Further afield, there is Findlay Market in Cincinnati, which is a must-visit, good place for quality meats and sausages as well as produce and spices, with speciality stores in the buildings around. Here is a collection of pix.
....and Jungle Jims, which probably has the best selection of imports and speciality foods in the region (but also regular supermarket stuff too), located between Dayton & Cincinnati, to the west near Hamilton.
If you are interested in restaurants, there are a few, but nothing like Chicago. Not that diverse. This is not a place for ethnic cooking beyond the usual Chinese, Mexican, Asian of various sorts (China Cottage the best for Chinese, and debate ensues when discussing Indian...I like Amar India).
Two exceptions are El Meson, which specializes in South American and some Spanish dishes, so something different. The other is Amber Rose, which specializes in Lithuanian, Hungarian, and Polish food, located in the former ethnic neighborhood of North Dayon, in a converted grocery store.
There are a handfull of independent restaurants of various styles. You can see them online at Dayton Indpendents. I've been to a number of them and generally the quality is good, with some exceptional places, like The Winds.
Neighborhoods that you might like:
McPhersontown: (not well known, directly across the river from downtown)
Oregon: (the best! One of the oldest neighborhoods in the Midwest, dating from befoer the Civil War)
South Park: (the next hot area. A lot of buzz here, and rehabs are ratcheting up)
Fairgrounds: (close to the university, and seeing a lot of investment)
Oakwood, but only East of Far Hills (between Far Hills and Shroyer) and Schantz Park. This is equiviant to living in the better parts of Evanston or Oak Park.
Yellow Springs, a village surrounded by cornfields, but very progressive/alternative. Good food and drink, too. A lot of migrants from more liberal/tolerant areas end up here.
Nothing is as Democratic or even progressive like Chicago. This is a very GOP area (both Cincinnati & Dayton). Rule of thumb is city/Democrat & suburb/Repubican, with some exceptions (like parts of Oakwood and aforementioned Yellow Springs).
Dayton/Montgomery County may appear slightly more Democratic than Cincinnati/Hamilton County, but that is due to the strong en-bloc voting by African-Americans and the residual strength of the union movement here (a lot of that in retiree votes).
Is this because we have a black mayor who is a democrat?
Is this because our vice-mayor is a democrat 2 with children that are gay?
Is this because the majority of our city council are democrats with one being a member of the charter committee?
Is this because J. Kerry won the city by a 60% vote?
Is this because there are gay bars/clubs/communities/gayborhoods scattered throughout the city?
Is this because we have a ridiculously large gay pride festival and parade?
Is this because half the city is black and half the city is white with a similar percentage being from 2 or more races?
Is this because our population, minority population, and foreign-born population are growing?
Or, is this because we had a race "riot" almost a decade ago?
I'm very curious as to what makes Dayton more "liberal" then Cincinnati? Can anyone post examples?
I never intended to slam Cincinnati, just posting my observations as someone who lived in Dayton/Cincinnati for 25 years, and then moved to Chicago, where I have lived for the past 10 years. If you have read any of my other posts, I LOVE Cincinnati, even more so than Dayton, where I was born.
The intent of my post, was to CONTRAST the political climate between Chicago, Dayton, and Cincy. I have lived in Chicago for the past TEN YEARS, and I know the local vibe, attitude, way of life and in some respect, the thought process and expectations that Chicagoans, in general, have (I know, no one is a mind-reader and I dont know what my neighbors thoughts are, but after living in a town for 10 yrs, you get a "feel" for the vibe).
For the most part, Chicagoans (especially on the North Side, where Lisa-O and I live at, per her post of being from Rogers Park) get used to the disproportionate amount of great restaurants, nightlife, cultural events, and progressive politics that other cities cannot offer yet. I am talking about QUANTITY here, other cities (as beautiful as they may be, such as Cincy) do not offer the AMOUNT that Chicago has...which, for one thing, is to be expected, because Chicago has almost 3 million people.
With the politics, I am NOT saying Cincy isnt diverse, or that the entire city is white, etc. It is, in many respects, a typical North American city, that votes Democrat, and has all sorts of ethnic backgrounds. But it is not EXTREMELY LIBERAL the way Chicago is. Like I said, Cincy is mostly REAGAN DEMOCRATS, people who are generally conservative socially but who are Union members and tend to vote for democrats. But, to most Chicagoans, Cincinnatians probably seem EXTREMELY RIGHT-WING. If you visit Chicago, MOST PEOPLE HERE ARE EXTREMELY LEFT-WING, and proud of it (by the way, I am not a liberal, I am libertarian). Many of the people I know here in Chicago, prefer to hang out with other "progressive" types and, truth be told, RESENT people who are socially conservative. The fact is, just because someone claims to be a Democrat (and runs for office as a Democrat), doesn't mean that they are "liberal". Ohio is a swing state, and tends to vote incumbents out (whether they are GOP or Dem), if the economic climate is bad.
And yes, for the record, I do remember when Jerry Springer (yes, THE Jerry Springer) was the mayor of Cincinnati. I also remember Cincinnati had a lesbian mayor back in the early 90's. But I also remember people in the region doing whatever they could to get rid of her when they realized it.
The racial situation in Cincy, as I remember it, is that the Appalachians and the Blacks do not get along very well. There is a racial tension in the Cincy region that does not seem to exist anymore in Chicago. My personal opinion is that racial situations in Chicago, at this point, are better than they are in Dayton/Cincy and quite frankly, as a white male, I have more black male friends at this time than white male friends.
Regarding your comments about the gayborhoods...what neighborhood in Cinci is now considered a gayborhood? I mean, gay people live everywhere, but I remember a club in Cincy named Pipeline, down in the CBD, and the city council tried to shut it down because it was a "gay bar".
I also know that this is the city where Larry Flint (of Hustler mag fame) got his start, and when he tried to open an adult bookstore on Vine St, the City Council did EVERYTHING THEY COULD to shut him down, they threw the BOOK at him, because...OMG...he sells DIRTY BOOKS and "seks toys"!!!! I also once heard that there is NOT ONE ADULT BOOKSTORE in the city limits of Cincinnati?
What I was really trying to say, is that Cinci is NOT a bastion of progressive politics, and I was trying to prepare Lisa-O for that fact, so she can make an informed decision.
There is no gayborhood in Cincinnati equivilant to what one finds in Chicago. This is the case for all Ohio cities.
I am an ex- native Chicagoan, and tend to agree with you about the degree of choice available here. Neither or Cincy or Dayton is that culturally diverse compared to Chicago, nor do they offer the level or choice (due to the population size difference you measured).
So expectations need to be lowered when one moves here.
SmartGXL and JefferyT, thanks. I was born and raised in Iowa so I am familiar with a dearth of diversity of people, food, culture. I think that's why I value it so much as an adult. However, every state has its high points. In Iowa, we have Iowa City for progressive culture. After learning about the Dorothy Market and other places from everyone here, I am more heartened. For me, it's just really hard to top Chicago. I consider it home.
On the plus side, I've seen some awesome houses in the Oregon district that cost a lot less than much smaller condos in my current city.
The only reason we would be moving is for this particular position. The role for which my husband is being considered doesn't come along a lot. In the end I suspect we'll stay but it's one of those things where you need to give your partner the ability to explore the option and choose from there.
Originally Posted by ritam2001
Please dont make the move from Chicago to Dayton, or for that matter anywhere in Ohio -- you will be disappointed.
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