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That being said... there's plenty to like. I like most of the people here, altho this area is a battleground of idealogy. Larry Flint picked Cincinnati as the place to put Hustler for a very specific reason. That's just south of Dayton. Just north (well, NE) is Yellow Springs. A hippie town that used to be called "Left of Berkeley." Used to, I say, because Antioch College just closed its doors... which makes me sad. My first few months in Wilmington (20 minutes from Beavercreek, which is next door to W-P) saw three Klan rallies... and Fountain Square in Cinci seems to always host something which is politically divisive. The "Aryan Nation" "church" has its national headquarters 15 minutes south of where I live in what used to be a Klan hall. So yes... racism is rampant around here. Cincinnati had invited the show "Cops" to record an episode here as a response to the race riots a few years back, but then realized it would probably be a BAD idea to showcase the region's cops. They're right.
I didn't do a very good job of showcasing the good stuff, did I? Honestly, most of the good stuff is what you dig up. The people you meet. The memories you make. I don't know if it's because I see all of this negativity because I'm older and more aware... of it's because of how sheltered I was in San Antonio (more precisely Randolph AFB... the complete opposite side from Brooks). But the point being, I'm pretty aware.
But yeah... as long as you learn where not to go (just like in San Antonio), you'll have the potential to love the area.
I was wondering when the San Antonio folks were going to show up here looking for WPAFB Dayton info. I had a big laugh when reading about the team they sent down to SA to convince relocation from Brooks to WPAFB, if I remember correctly it was even in the winter (great time to ask questions about that).
I grew up in the NW burbs of Chicago and was in the NW side of San Antonio 1997 to 2006. Then we moved to the Dayton area for 2006 to 2010 (wife in Air Force at WPAFB).
I think I would still pick San Antonio over Dayton due to the winter and economy, but there are a lot of great things about the Dayton area that make it a hard choice.
THE BAD:
Winter: I grew up in it and knew exactly what to expect….VERY cold, icy, snowy, VERY limited sunlight for about 4 months (some years are not too bad like this one…last year REALLY sucked, didn’t warm up ‘til June 1). Usually got one or two snow dumpers that trap you in your house for a day or two each winter. The ice/snow/ice/snow combo is the worst because you can't keep ahead of it and you end up with a 1 inch thick sheet of ice stuck to the driveway, fun to try to drive on. Also is almost unbearable to see my cars eaten alive by the brutal road salt up here. Drove two mint Texas vehicles up here in 2006 and now they are turning to junk after just 3 winters. The entire undercarriage of my Expedition is pure rust now (Thanks OHIO!). One winter left, then maybe on to NC or SC.
The SUN: Yes, not seeing the sun for weeks at a time is very depressing. It is not so bad for me because this is probably the last winter here, then a possible move south to a place with more sun in the winter. Sometimes you get lucky and have a mild winter like the one we just had, but sometimes you don’t.
Summers: just don’t get hot enough (disclaimer…I LOVE heat). I get cold in the outdoor pool in under one hour. Oddly enough, it is noticeably more humid in the Dayton area as compared to San Antonio.
Job market: a little tough up here, but not that bad. WPAFB is growing a bit and really keeps a lot of the surrounding areas going well. Lots of contractors located around the base big like Northrup/Lockheed etc, and small. Employment doors are always seem to be open for the people with security clearance.
News: Newspaper constantly running articles wondering why more companies don’t move here and why so many leave and how to keep the city budgets alive. Many articles pointing out what great things are here, ironically there have even been some comparing to San Antonio riverwalk. Sometimes I think if they just stop pressing it so hard, it might lift the cloud and resolve by removing the stirring up of gloom and doom. To put this in perspective, the San Antonio paper pretty much covers the massive growth problems, corrupt local leaders, and some recent minor job cutbacks.
Lakes: Few, far between and small. I was a Lake Medina skier, trailered my boat up here…. gave up and sold it after 2.5 years with almost no lake time.
No Neighborhood swimming pools. Public pools are expensive and overcrowded. Some “private” pool “clubs” around also very expensive.
THE GOOD:
Young Families: Tons of great neighborhoods up here and small communities, lots of friendly people. It is kind of like the 6 degrees of separation thing, but maybe 3 degrees. You keep running into people connected to other people you know and it becomes an awesome network of families for kids playing and helping each other out. This is especially top notch in the smaller communities like Bellbrook and Oakwood.
The People: Most of the great surrounding cities and townships are filled with people who are here because they want to be here. They find ways to stay here and many start small businesses and have a great network within the communities. I used to think San Antonio was the most friendly place after moving from the Chicago burbs, but Daytons surrounding areas has it beat. I think it has to do with population density, San Antonio is really built up and has become harried and congested with aggressive drivers. It was culture shock to actually be stuck behind the Dayton area 5 mph UNDER drivers (most of them). The people who do not want to be here have pretty much already left.
No Traffic: One of the products of the boom years and subsequent population reduction is an awesome lightly used road infrastructure. It is nice to know this place will not boom like San Antonio did, so you should still be living the good traffic life years from now here. 65mph means 65mph, no need for a sports car here, Ohios finest have this place locked down and the 70mph creeping pass competition is on. People actually get in the correct lane far in advance rather than the patented accelerate and jam in San Antonio technique. Another shocker is to see a line of cars in one lane and the other empty at a stoplight where two lanes that will merge in 1/8 mile ahead…San Antonio would be gentlemen, start your engines, two filled up lanes to merge at top speed! Also, people in Dayton area DO know how to turn left at a green light…they actually HAVE TO because many left turns do not have arrows. They also know how to merge without stopping (ahem…frontage road I10, 410, 281…).
San Antonio 410 and 1604 were great open roads in the 90s, but now are parking lots (north/northwest areas) (wonder if they will ever connect 281 to 1604?).
Hundreds of miles of top notch beautiful paved bike paths: Another benefit of the boom years, old railways converted. Get a recumbent if you do not like regular bikes, it is worth it (or you can rent). Unfortunately, the cold winter blocks about half the year from good usage, but 6 months is still worth it.
Tall trees, green grass…..Makes San Antonio look really brown.
Winter: can be a plus if you have been in the heat for many years and would like to have some winter. If you are positive about it, it can be fun. Sledding, two small ski & tubing hills within about 1 hour drive, maybe even cross country skiing. The south burbs of Dayton only get a few weeks of actual usable snow accumulation, so you have to use it while it is there. Just get some great cold weather gear. I recently found that nylon warm up pants can be slipped over your jeans/pants to make an awesome layer good to about -10 degrees, and can be removed and put on easily as needed. I was in Texas for 13 years and did not notice that I had actually missed winter (at least a little bit) until moving back up north to the Dayton area.
Still some allergens, but no mountain cedar, live oak pollen. You actually get a 4 to 5 month break from allergens during the winter in Ohio. San Antonio has a great always-on allergen cycle. When one is going away, the next one is starting.
Do you like horses?....Farms? Hayrides? Corn Mazes in October? They are around, but not overbearing like the middle of Illinois/ Indiana/Iowa. You have to drive out to get to them, from a few minutes up to maybe 30 minutes.
Lots of river canoeing/kayaking places. Maybe not as cool as tubing the Comal or Guadalupe. You do not want to put your body in the Ohio rivers, trust me on that one.
A couple hours drive from the Mountains, nice vacation stuff and hikes. Great state parks with lots of amenities.
Haven’t heard about aquifer issues, but there was a bit of a drought recently.
Ever heard of the Cornhole game? You should move here just to find out what it is.
Not sure if it is good or bad, but you would probably need to switch from the Spurs and Cowboys to Bengals and Ohio State with a little local Wright State and UD mixed in. Dayton Dragons are a good minor league team and make for a good affordable night out.
Lots of river canoeing/kayaking places. Maybe not as cool as tubing the Comal or Guadalupe. You do not want to put your body in the Ohio rivers, trust me on that one.
I knew they did tubing in Austin but didnt know this was popular in the SA area,too. You wonder why they dont do this on the Little Miami. Good call on the canoeing and kayaking. Kayaking seems to be a growing thing here as I read they just formed a Dayton Kayak Club.
Being somewhat new to the area, I am wondering what mountains are a couple of hours drive away? I moved here from the Colorado Mountains and I really miss them! I'd love to take a drive this summer and see some mountains nearby. Somewhere in PA??
I would go for the mountains in TN over the ones in PA. If you go to PA, then you could save yourself a huge trip and go to SE Ohio. The terrain is very similar.
Thanks. I guess I thought there might have been some mountains closer since the poster stated, "A couple hours drive from the Mountains, nice vacation stuff and hikes. Great state parks with lots of amenities." I checked Gatlinburg and that is 5-1/2 hours drive each way. It is still something to think about for an extra long weekend though... Never been there. What are the main attractions/sightseeing there?
I'm confused too about the poster that stated "I would go for the mountains in TN over the ones in PA. If you go to PA, then you could save yourself a huge trip and go to SE Ohio. The terrain is very similar." Are they really not mountains, are they nothing more than the hills of SE Ohio?
As you can tell, I've obviously never been to the Eastern US... and my highschool geography class is not remembered.....
Yeah the Smokies and the other mountains in Tenn are true mountains, and are high enough that its noticeably cooler on the top gaps and passes than it is down in the valleys. There are long ridge mountains in PA, too, though I've never been far enough east to see them.
For Appalachian Ohio (and neighboring Kentucky, WVA, and PA) this is more an eroded plateau (in geological terms), a maze of high points, saddles, ridgelines, hollows ("box canyons") and broader valley floors, dying out in an escarpment made up of ridges and knobs (Fort Hill is a good example). This region goes by various names (Alleghany Plaeau, Cumberland Plateau, Applachian Plateau).
Slopes are can be very steep, dying out into rock outcroppings, cliffs, natural bridges, and "rockhouses" (a form of dry cave with two openings)..
Recreation here is really more of the backpacking and hiking variety though I've known folks to do rock climbing & rapelling when I lived down in KY, since there is more of this down there (Red River Gorge country). The type of serious mountain climbing and skiing is really not available here, though there are some ski areas that use artificial snow.
Here is a view of "Appachian Ohio" in Scioto County (Shawnee State Forest0 1 - 2 hr east/southeast of Dayton. There are backpacking trails if you are into that. The feature of this landscape is that the land is so broken and wooded its easy to feel you are in wild place.
There is also Buzzards Roost Rock, which I have hiked. This is a good day hike. Its part of a set of nature preseves called Edge of Appalachia
Applachian Ohio shows up pretty clear on this map of forest cover
The area I was showing pix of is the forested area to the west (left) of those two river valleys that show up running north-south in the central lower part of the map, near the "south point" of Ohio.
I'll be one of the base realignment immigrants too, not from San Antonio though, but from Pensacola. I've found great info on this forum, and have just returned from my first scouting trip. I thought I'd post a trip report for the benefit of others considering the move. Our family's focus is primarily on public school quality and safety. We're looking for a neighborhood also with opportunities for recreation, athletics and social activities. The usual suspects: Oakwood, Centerville, Beavercreek, Kettering, etc all impressed. I'll post specific observations on these, but first here are some general impressions:
Once outside of Dayton proper the area is more rural than I expected. And it was quite beautiful that time of year (late April). I visited areas N, E, and S of WPAFB. In general NE is flatter, with lots of farmland, while SE is more rolling and wooded. Large parts of "suburbs" such as Beavercreek, Centerville and Bellbrook are wooded or farmland. Except for some areas, most of the subdivisions are somewhat isolated from each other, separated by woodlands or farms, or single homes on larger plots.
Traffic was rather light, even at rush hour. It was similar in this regard to Pensacola, and much lighter than San Antonio (I used to live in Austin, so I'm fairly familiar with SA). I'd say with respect to population density and lifestyle Beavercreek, Bellbrook and Centerville were similar to each other, as opposed to Kettering and Oakwood, which are closer in to Dayton, and more-or-less thoroughly developed.
Unless you're in the little old village areas of Centerville or Bellbrook, pretty much everything - shops, schools, parks, etc - will be a drive. Kettering is a bit more mixed. It's thickly developed, so luck of the draw may put some things in walking distance. Oakwood seems fully walkable - schools and parks for sure, some shops too, depending on needs.
Everything was closer together than I imagined. Most of the places I checked were about 15-20 minutes from WPAFB area B. Parts of Beavercreek and Fairborn were even 10 minutes. For Kettering Bellbrook and Centerville areas close in I-675 might give you a 15-20 minute commute, more distant areas maybe 25-30 minutes. Oakwood, although not far by the map, was a bit trickier to drive. The locals may know a good way to do it, but all the routes I found involved lots of traffic lights (same goes for west Kettering). That seems to be about a 25-30 minute commute. Yellow springs it seems was about 20-25 minutes. The only out of the way place I checked was Tipp City (based on recommendations on this forum). It seemed a nice town, but fairly remote, and a long commute - 35 to 40 minutes, I'd estimate.
Oakwood. This was my personal favorite. It has the top rated schools in the Dayton area, and among the top in the entire state. Admittedly, the weather couldn't have been more perfect that day, but there were kids playing everywhere, families outside, parks full, etc. Architecture was varied and attractive. This area is relatively expensive for Dayton, but affordable by most other standards (4BR can be had for $200k, for example - or for $3 million, if that's how you roll).
Kettering. Older, close-in suburb. Schools seem to be very good, but probably a notch below Beavercreek, Centerville and Bellbrook, and I suppose two notches below Oakwood. Some areas seemed a bit run down, but others were quite nice. These seemed to be interspersed, but in general west Kettering seemed to be more affluent than east.
Centerville. Nice old village area, surrounded by subdivisions, surrounded by country estates, developments and farmettes (the outer area I think is Washington Township, technically, not Centerville). Very good (and enormous) schools.
Beavercreek. Seemed almost a carbon copy of Centerville, absent the old village center. Maybe not quite as nice, but nice nonetheless. A little closer to WPAFB, too.
Bellbrook. This was my favorite of the "rural" burbs. Nice little old village. More rural than the others, too. Rolling, wooded, country roads. Homes tucked away on an acre or two (this can be had in centerville and Beavercreek, too), and a smaller (but still top-notch) high school.
Yellow Springs. I liked the idea, but reality did not measure up. Looks like it's seen better days, and the closing of Antioch probably won't help. I liked the downtown area, but even that seemed a bit run down. I think the schools are good, but not as good as the others mentioned.
Tipp City. Very nice, all-American type town. Main Street with shops etc, older traditional well-kept houses. Very walkable from most areas, it would seem. Isolated from everything else though, and a longish commute. Surrounded by farms and woods for miles in every direction (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). The schools look to be pretty good. Best on the north side (with Vandalia maybe?), but not as good as the others discussed.
Thanks to all here who helped me with a good head start.
I'll be one of the base realignment immigrants too, not from San Antonio though, but from Pensacola. I've found great info on this forum, and have just returned from my first scouting trip. I thought I'd post a trip report for the benefit of others considering the move. Our family's focus is primarily on public school quality and safety. We're looking for a neighborhood also with opportunities for recreation, athletics and social activities. The usual suspects: Oakwood, Centerville, Beavercreek, Kettering, etc all impressed. I'll post specific observations on these, but first here are some general impressions:
Once outside of Dayton proper the area is more rural than I expected. And it was quite beautiful that time of year (late April). I visited areas N, E, and S of WPAFB. In general NE is flatter, with lots of farmland, while SE is more rolling and wooded. Large parts of "suburbs" such as Beavercreek, Centerville and Bellbrook are wooded or farmland. Except for some areas, most of the subdivisions are somewhat isolated from each other, separated by woodlands or farms, or single homes on larger plots.
Traffic was rather light, even at rush hour. It was similar in this regard to Pensacola, and much lighter than San Antonio (I used to live in Austin, so I'm fairly familiar with SA). I'd say with respect to population density and lifestyle Beavercreek, Bellbrook and Centerville were similar to each other, as opposed to Kettering and Oakwood, which are closer in to Dayton, and more-or-less thoroughly developed.
Unless you're in the little old village areas of Centerville or Bellbrook, pretty much everything - shops, schools, parks, etc - will be a drive. Kettering is a bit more mixed. It's thickly developed, so luck of the draw may put some things in walking distance. Oakwood seems fully walkable - schools and parks for sure, some shops too, depending on needs.
Everything was closer together than I imagined. Most of the places I checked were about 15-20 minutes from WPAFB area B. Parts of Beavercreek and Fairborn were even 10 minutes. For Kettering Bellbrook and Centerville areas close in I-675 might give you a 15-20 minute commute, more distant areas maybe 25-30 minutes. Oakwood, although not far by the map, was a bit trickier to drive. The locals may know a good way to do it, but all the routes I found involved lots of traffic lights (same goes for west Kettering). That seems to be about a 25-30 minute commute. Yellow springs it seems was about 20-25 minutes. The only out of the way place I checked was Tipp City (based on recommendations on this forum). It seemed a nice town, but fairly remote, and a long commute - 35 to 40 minutes, I'd estimate.
Oakwood. This was my personal favorite. It has the top rated schools in the Dayton area, and among the top in the entire state. Admittedly, the weather couldn't have been more perfect that day, but there were kids playing everywhere, families outside, parks full, etc. Architecture was varied and attractive. This area is relatively expensive for Dayton, but affordable by most other standards (4BR can be had for $200k, for example - or for $3 million, if that's how you roll).
Kettering. Older, close-in suburb. Schools seem to be very good, but probably a notch below Beavercreek, Centerville and Bellbrook, and I suppose two notches below Oakwood. Some areas seemed a bit run down, but others were quite nice. These seemed to be interspersed, but in general west Kettering seemed to be more affluent than east.
Centerville. Nice old village area, surrounded by subdivisions, surrounded by country estates, developments and farmettes (the outer area I think is Washington Township, technically, not Centerville). Very good (and enormous) schools.
Beavercreek. Seemed almost a carbon copy of Centerville, absent the old village center. Maybe not quite as nice, but nice nonetheless. A little closer to WPAFB, too.
Bellbrook. This was my favorite of the "rural" burbs. Nice little old village. More rural than the others, too. Rolling, wooded, country roads. Homes tucked away on an acre or two (this can be had in centerville and Beavercreek, too), and a smaller (but still top-notch) high school.
Yellow Springs. I liked the idea, but reality did not measure up. Looks like it's seen better days, and the closing of Antioch probably won't help. I liked the downtown area, but even that seemed a bit run down. I think the schools are good, but not as good as the others mentioned.
Tipp City. Very nice, all-American type town. Main Street with shops etc, older traditional well-kept houses. Very walkable from most areas, it would seem. Isolated from everything else though, and a longish commute. Surrounded by farms and woods for miles in every direction (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). The schools look to be pretty good. Best on the north side (with Vandalia maybe?), but not as good as the others discussed.
Thanks to all here who helped me with a good head start.
I wish you the best of luck with wherever you end up.
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