NCR Moving to Georgia? (Dayton: best, jobs, kids)

[tgasper]

I'm with you "lived here forever". I wish we knew how to package, spin or market what is so special about Dayton because it seems to be a very elusive feature. Once people come here and experience Dayton, they typically fall in love. Sometimes they may not land in the right place right away. For example, I have a couple that will be renting a home from me in South Park (www.historicsourthpark.org) for two years while he wraps up Med School at Wright State University. They've been here for two years and ended up at The Greene and HATE it because #1 it is shoddy construction (even though it was brand new when they moved in) and #2 it's so FAKE. They love our story (www.fullcircledayton.com), love what we're trying to do in South Park, have been on the neighborhood email list for two months now and feel more connected to a neighborhood they haven't lived in yet than to the people where they live now.

What's ironic, is when you draw a two-hour drive-time radius from downtown Dayton, the market size is exactly the same as Atlanta. Within two hours of Dayton, you can drive to Toledo (NW), Indy, Columbus, Cincinnati, Lexington and Louisville. Plus we have a greater number of colleges & universities, plus we have WATER. Yes, I bring that up a lot, but it's very important.

So while I'm not sure how to convey affordable housing without it meaning "hey we're cheap"? Or you can get virtually anywhere in the City within 20 minutes without it appearing that nothing is going on, you & I and others that live here KNOW what I'm talking about.

It's something magical, mystical and hard to describe, but it's also very real.

[Clevelander17]

Yeah, traffic in Atlanta is a nightmare.

I think Patterson is rolling over in his grave at the idea of NCR moving to Georgia.

[nature's message]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

Yeah, traffic in Atlanta is a nightmare.

I think Patterson is rolling over in his grave at the idea of NCR moving to Georgia.

LOLZ, that's nothing. LA has far worse traffic, and DC is on par.

[Crew Chief]

We moved to Washington Twp on a whim. And came to LOVE the area. (Dayton as well as the South Suburbs...) Now that a few days have passed, I've had a chance to read the Dayton Daily News and I've read the thoughtful posts here, I'm a LOT less wound up about the whole NCR deal. As other have pointed out, my opinion is also that Atlanta has as many minuses as it has plusses. And we here in Dayton WILL survive, prosper and move on.

As TGasper says, we just need to be able to package and market the assets we have. We realized how great Dayton was once we settled in here. Our thinking on the way in was "If we don't find anything in Dayton, there's Columbus and Cincinnati". So we have the same regional configuration as Atlanta. Only with a LOT more water! And a decent airport to boot! (And no kudzu)

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by nature's message

LOLZ, that's nothing. LA has far worse traffic, and DC is on par.

Great news, Atlanta has acceptable traffic when compared to Los Angeles.

[catherinedevlin]

I've been to Atlanta a couple times - my main impression was of nightmare traffic. (Federal Highway Administration estimated $2.6 billion lost to traffic congestion in metro Atlanta in 2005: http://www.theatlantic.com/images/is.../win-large.gif) Between that and the water shortages...

Originally Posted by tgasper

Maybe the farewell for Dayton & NCR will be easier this way, because as hard as it is to see them move away after 125 years, it would be harder to see them die entirely. They are not a healthy company, they are in a mature or dying industry and their primary customers are retail & financial - neither of which are doing well either. In 2005 their stock price was trading at $50/share (under Mark Hurd, now CEO at HP), it's now at $10 and has dropped since the announcement.

This is a really good point. NCR claims they'll benefit from a larger labor market in Atlanta - but does anybody remember the last time NCR HQ hired anyone? For years, every time I've talked to my NCR friends, their news has been job cuts all around them, and fear that they would be next. If you don't hire people, what good does a large labor market do you?

Moving, however... moving is one way to get rid of people. Many NCR employees will decide not to make the move to Atlanta. That essentially lets NCR conduct its next round of layoffs automatically, with a huge subsidy for doing it.

Anyway, it's true - Dayton's future isn't in hoping that old, withering businesses will stay here and won't wither too fast. We can and we will see new businesses that are on their way up, not down. Probably not into giant corporations that the whole city depends on, but as parts of an ecosystem of lots of small, active companies.

[JefferyT]

We can and we will see new businesses that are on their way up, not down. Probably not into giant corporations that the whole city depends on, but as parts of an ecosystem of lots of small, active companies.

The ecosystem analogy is a good one.

[Billy from Dayton]

Originally Posted by catherinedevlin

I've been to Atlanta a couple times - my main impression was of nightmare traffic. (Federal Highway Administration estimated $2.6 billion lost to traffic congestion in metro Atlanta in 2005: http://www.theatlantic.com/images/is.../win-large.gif) Between that and the water shortages...
This is a really good point. NCR claims they'll benefit from a larger labor market in Atlanta - but does anybody remember the last time NCR HQ hired anyone? For years, every time I've talked to my NCR friends, their news has been job cuts all around them, and fear that they would be next. If you don't hire people, what good does a large labor market do you?

Moving, however... moving is one way to get rid of people. Many NCR employees will decide not to make the move to Atlanta. That essentially lets NCR conduct its next round of layoffs automatically, with a huge subsidy for doing it.

Anyway, it's true - Dayton's future isn't in hoping that old, withering businesses will stay here and won't wither too fast. We can and we will see new businesses that are on their way up, not down. Probably not into giant corporations that the whole city depends on, but as parts of an ecosystem of lots of small, active companies.

Nicely said, catherinedevlin

What I'm most worried about is the fact that much of our "quality of life" type stuff has traditionally been very dependent on large corporations for support. Dayton continues to have tremendous arts & culture offerings and is not far from becoming the outdoor recreation capital of the entire midwest (making the river navigatable for kayaks and canoes will put us over the top). But without the big corp. support these things are in serious jeopardy. We can only hope that umbrella funding orgs like Culture Works quickly figure out how to completely change their contribution model to work better with smaller businesses and other fund-raising type things.

But yes, if we can ensure that our quality-of-life aspects don't die and we can get through the short-term pain then I think Dayton will in fact be better off without the big legacy corporations.

[Crew Chief]

Billyfrom Dayton, I think you're right on the money with developing ourselves as a kayaking "destination"! Yes, we DO need to move on from worring what NCR is doing. Things like kayaking and other sporting activities along our rivers will help bring the so-desirable "creative class" that would strat small business and make other positive contributions to the Dayton area.

[Billy from Dayton]

^ yeah, but I really hate the term "creative class". I wish there was a different term for "people that add to the vibrancy, flavor and economy of a city"!

What kills this city more than anything is a severe lack of leadership. There is hope though, because new leaders are emerging as we speak. Lots of young talent and people with fresh ideas who are actually doing great things at the grassroots level - eventually some of those people will replace some of the political hacks we have now.

Just kills me to read all the nasty DDN comments that totally trash the city as if there was nothing here worth saving. There is a hell of a lot to fight for here - we need more people to recognize that and quit using bad leadership as an excuse to give up on the city.