Why the midwest is gonna boom again. (Columbus, Cleveland: middle-class, 2010)

[nickolaseposter]

Cleveland. Indianapolis. Dayton. St. Louis. Cincinnati. Grand Rapids. Columbus. Pittsburgh. Toledo. Fort Wayne. Kansas City. Memphis. Chicago. Nashville. Louisville. Peoria. Des Moines. Minneapolis. Detroit. (I'm probably forgetting a few other ones.)
The midwest definitly has an interesting array of cities. But what is going to make it boom the most???

I don't think that we'll have to worry much about competition between the West Coast (California's population is, for the first time in eighty years, seeing a decline) or the East Coast (NY is not growing as much, and the only REAL cities that are growing is D.C.). The real competition will be between the midwest (north) and the southern states. Cities like Atlanta, Miami, Tampa, Dallas, Houston, Austin, New Orleans. Thats the competition. The midwest has gotta get smart and outwit the southern states. And the BEST way to do that. THE WAY WE'RE GONNA GROW, is by mere affordability. The recession isn't over yet, but when it ends, the markets will rise in a direction where people want to spend their money in a way that they can get more BANG for their BUCK. So what should the midwest do? Not lower their standards, but provide strong middle class housing that is diverse and offers plenty of ammentities. Wanna grow our downtowns? Offer middle class housing downtown or near it. Clean up old houses with character and clean up dirty neighborhoods. It's all about making things look nice, having at least okay schools, and having an affordable, realistic setting. That is whats gonna draw people to your city in the 2010 and even into the 2020's.

[dayton_ohio]

Originally Posted by nickolaseposter

Cleveland. Indianapolis. Dayton. St. Louis. Cincinnati. Grand Rapids. Columbus. Pittsburgh. Toledo. Fort Wayne. Kansas City. Memphis. Chicago. Nashville. Louisville. Peoria. Des Moines. Minneapolis. Detroit. (I'm probably forgetting a few other ones.)
The midwest definitly has an interesting array of cities. But what is going to make it boom the most???

I don't think that we'll have to worry much about competition between the West Coast (California's population is, for the first time in eighty years, seeing a decline) or the East Coast (NY is not growing as much, and the only REAL cities that are growing is D.C.). The real competition will be between the midwest (north) and the southern states. Cities like Atlanta, Miami, Tampa, Dallas, Houston, Austin, New Orleans. Thats the competition. The midwest has gotta get smart and outwit the southern states. And the BEST way to do that. THE WAY WE'RE GONNA GROW, is by mere affordability. The recession isn't over yet, but when it ends, the markets will rise in a direction where people want to spend their money in a way that they can get more BANG for their BUCK. So what should the midwest do? Not lower their standards, but provide strong middle class housing that is diverse and offers plenty of ammentities. Wanna grow our downtowns? Offer middle class housing downtown or near it. Clean up old houses with character and clean up dirty neighborhoods. It's all about making things look nice, having at least okay schools, and having an affordable, realistic setting. That is whats gonna draw people to your city in the 2010 and even into the 2020's.

Interesting post. The only problem is that many Southern cities are also very affordable, and with better weather, lower taxes, and NEWER housing stock. It seems like a lot of people want brand-new housing and retail developments, not the 1920s-1960s middle-class housing stock that is so common across the industrial midwest.

In my experience, most people moving to Atlanta, so example, aren't moving into the very nice in-town/gentrified neighborhoods, but into the booming and ever expanding northern and southern suburbs. Those people likely wouldn't want to buy a house in downtown Dayton, no matter how nice we make it.

[malachai23]

I think cleaning up old houses and neighborhoods is a great idea (who wouldn't?) but the #1 thing that is going to bring people into the Midwest is going to be jobs. If people can't make a living then affordability and aesthetics are moot points.

[nickolaseposter]

Originally Posted by malachai23

I think cleaning up old houses and neighborhoods is a great idea (who wouldn't?) but the #1 thing that is going to bring people into the Midwest is going to be jobs. If people can't make a living then affordability and aesthetics are moot points.

Excellent point. Jobs are really going to be a centerpiece, too. I think what I am trying to say is...after the recession, at least for a while, people aren't going to be moving into bigger homes or brand new homes. They want affordable, middle class, most bang for your buck. I think we can compete with Atlanta. We have assets that Atlanta doesn't have. We have a creative workforce. We have more history. Atlanta isn't located in an excellent spot for transportation industry and we have water. Yes...we have one of the nations LARGEST aquifers sitting beneath us in Dayton. And believe it or not, water is a growing industry. With the green market on the rise, and offering more LEED approved offices and residences downtown, that can make us stand out as an environmentally friendly city. Cincinnati is near this aquifer, too. I think that more cities in the midwest should also put wind turbines on tp of their skyscrapers. They don't have to be ugly. Perhaps more greenery. Building more urban farms.
The midwest is more laid back and middle class to begin with and there is much more architecture here. I think that we can win people over. As long as that southern heat doesn't get to them. ;-)

[dayton_ohio]

Originally Posted by nickolaseposter

Excellent point. Jobs are really going to be a centerpiece, too. I think what I am trying to say is...after the recession, at least for a while, people aren't going to be moving into bigger homes or brand new homes. They want affordable, middle class, most bang for your buck. I think we can compete with Atlanta. We have assets that Atlanta doesn't have. We have a creative workforce. We have more history. Atlanta isn't located in an excellent spot for transportation industry and we have water. Yes...we have one of the nations LARGEST aquifers sitting beneath us in Dayton. And believe it or not, water is a growing industry. With the green market on the rise, and offering more LEED approved offices and residences downtown, that can make us stand out as an environmentally friendly city. Cincinnati is near this aquifer, too. I think that more cities in the midwest should also put wind turbines on tp of their skyscrapers. They don't have to be ugly. Perhaps more greenery. Building more urban farms.
The midwest is more laid back and middle class to begin with and there is much more architecture here. I think that we can win people over. As long as that southern heat doesn't get to them. ;-)

Atlanta actually is in an excellent spot for transportation, better than Dayton today. Dayton is kind of close to a few big cities (Chicago, Detroit, Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati), but not very close to any big city.

Atlanta also is at the crossroads of two major interstates (I75 and I20), but also has the benefit of being close to a major ocean port (Savannah) and being a major population center itself. That's one reason why Atlanta is now the hub for U.S. illegal drug distribution.

Your water point is valid, although Atlanta is back to normal after a very wet late summer and early fall.

We don't really have more history than Atlanta, which has the Civil War, the civil rights movement, and the development of multiple iconic corporations (Coca-Cola, Delta, and Home Depot to name three).

What we do have is a good quality of life: little traffic, relatively low violent crime (except in a few neighborhoods), interesting neighborhoods, some historic architecture, great libraries, museums, and parks (especially on a per capita basis), and excellent schools.

Your idea of being an environmentally friendly city is a good one. I'd love to see Dayton become something like a mini-Ann Arbor or Madison, Wisconsin: educated, a little artsy, environmentally-friendly, and open-minded, with a good mix of university, government, health care, business services, arts, and commercial jobs.

[malachai23]

Originally Posted by dayton_ohio

Your idea of being an environmentally friendly city is a good one. I'd love to see Dayton become something like a mini-Ann Arbor or Madison, Wisconsin: educated, a little artsy, environmentally-friendly, and open-minded, with a good mix of university, government, health care, business services, arts, and commercial jobs.

If Dayton were all of those things, it would be very difficult for me to leave this place. I need to leave for other reasons, but it would be *that much harder* for me to do so if Dayton were all the things you mention. I think you hit the nail on the head and these are the things precisely that Dayton lacks - and needs - in order to grow into a viable and competitive metro. I like Dayton a lot, but I would like it SO MUCH MORE if it were to become more educated/artsy/eco-friendly/open-minded.

[city_data91]

Originally Posted by nickolaseposter

Cleveland. Indianapolis. Dayton. St. Louis. Cincinnati. Grand Rapids. Columbus. Pittsburgh. Toledo. Fort Wayne. Kansas City. Memphis. Chicago. Nashville. Louisville. Peoria. Des Moines. Minneapolis. Detroit. (I'm probably forgetting a few other ones.)
The midwest definitly has an interesting array of cities. But what is going to make it boom the most???

I don't think that we'll have to worry much about competition between the West Coast (California's population is, for the first time in eighty years, seeing a decline) or the East Coast (NY is not growing as much, and the only REAL cities that are growing is D.C.). The real competition will be between the midwest (north) and the southern states. Cities like Atlanta, Miami, Tampa, Dallas, Houston, Austin, New Orleans. Thats the competition. The midwest has gotta get smart and outwit the southern states. And the BEST way to do that. THE WAY WE'RE GONNA GROW, is by mere affordability. The recession isn't over yet, but when it ends, the markets will rise in a direction where people want to spend their money in a way that they can get more BANG for their BUCK. So what should the midwest do? Not lower their standards, but provide strong middle class housing that is diverse and offers plenty of ammentities. Wanna grow our downtowns? Offer middle class housing downtown or near it. Clean up old houses with character and clean up dirty neighborhoods. It's all about making things look nice, having at least okay schools, and having an affordable, realistic setting. That is whats gonna draw people to your city in the 2010 and even into the 2020's.

Memphis and Nashville are not Midwestern, they are Southern.

[dayton_ohio]

Originally Posted by malachai23

If Dayton were all of those things, it would be very difficult for me to leave this place. I need to leave for other reasons, but it would be *that much harder* for me to do so if Dayton were all the things you mention. I think you hit the nail on the head and these are the things precisely that Dayton lacks - and needs - in order to grow into a viable and competitive metro. I like Dayton a lot, but I would like it SO MUCH MORE if it were to become more educated/artsy/eco-friendly/open-minded.

I like it here already too, but would like that town much more. A world-class university seems to be a key component to the success of a lot of towns. I don't think that UD and WSU are at the Wisconsin/Michigan/Berkeley level yet, but things change. UD's aggressive investments in upgrading its physical plant are a great start, as is trying to make Dayton a global center for materials science.

This is totally dreaming, but it would be very interesting if Antioch could ever find a way to put a 2nd physical campus in between UD and Dayton (perhaps in the under-developed area to the west of MVH), offering an urban campus in Dayton and a rural/small-town campus in Yellow Springs. That would almost create an active/urban/walkable zone from Oakwood through downtown.

[Daytonnatian]

^That would be cool, but Antioch needs to first work on getting its prestige brownie points up. With the right strategy, I really think they could be a top 30 Liberal Arts College by the end of the decade, but it would require a radical strategy (like free tuition and room and board to anyone of high academic standing, or allowing a pre-professional major in like engineering or business)


Nick- I absolutely love your charisma, but posting this thread on every board in to Ohio forum really wasn't necessary. Your topic would garner a lot of response if posted here, though:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/general-u-s/

[malachai23]

Originally Posted by dayton_ohio

This is totally dreaming, but it would be very interesting if Antioch could ever find a way to put a 2nd physical campus in between UD and Dayton (perhaps in the under-developed area to the west of MVH), offering an urban campus in Dayton and a rural/small-town campus in Yellow Springs. That would almost create an active/urban/walkable zone from Oakwood through downtown.

hmmm. That *would* be very cool. You are correct. A highly competitive 4-year or higher university, especially one with a campus in town, always adds a little something to a city. It also brings in a large population, albeit transient, of consumers who can and do support local businesses.