The Age Old Question of Public Transit to Dayton's Malls (Fairfield: low income, renters)

[Billy from Dayton]

^ this has nothing to do with churches with buses - it is a coalition of area churches that got together to advocate for bus service to the area malls so those without cars can have better access - whether they are elderly, can't afford a car or choose to not have a car (I know, in Ohio that last one is pretty rare). As for the question of why the churches are getting involved - well, they advocate for the less fortunate in many ways, so why not transportation?

[JefferyT]

I guess what suprises me is how threatened people feel by bus service to the malls (actually the Dayton Mall does have service, just at the far end of the parking lot).

I was curious about this and looked at the Louisville transit system maps, ("TARC", Transit Authority of River City"). The three malls in Louisville have service, and based on the route maps compared with aeriels, it looks like they go on mall property, direclty serving these three malls.

Yet I never heard of the complaints about "those people" at the malls in Louisville. It doesnt seem to be an issue.

Perhaps public transit in Dayton has become so stigmatized by negative racial/social class connotations that it is an existential threat, causing that firestorm of comments. I liked Esrati's sarcastic remark on the perception of RTA:

Buses are the barrels that deliver the poison to our engines of economic development- instead of public transit for those who don’t believe in owning a car.

This is all really sort of amazing, when you think of it. One of the more dynamic business and retail/services centers in the region, one that is getting a new hospital, too, has next to no public transit (except for the service out Colonel Glenn to Wright State). I don't think I've lived in a metropoltan area with such a set-up.

[wrightflyer]

Originally Posted by JefferyT

This is all really sort of amazing, when you think of it. One of the more dynamic business and retail/services centers in the region, one that is getting a new hospital, too, has next to no public transit (except for the service out Colonel Glenn to Wright State). I don't think I've lived in a metropoltan area with such a set-up.

Personally, this situation could make a great case study, possibly for a graduate student, but whether that would be under sociology or transportation and urban geography I could only guess.

The pessimist in me says, having lived in Greene County for 20 years, that it would take some rearangement on the political side, in both Greene County, Beavercreek, and possibly Montgomery County (cause they control where the RTA goes and how that is funded) to get busing to the Fairfield Mall. Also, funding may be a HUGE issue against this push.

In any respect, there is some form of transit to the Dayton Mall, though I think their problem is the safety of walking across the parking lot. Too me, I'd just say if you are going to do that, why not just drop the users off at the front door?

[JefferyT]

The pessimist in me says, having lived in Greene County for 20 years, that it would take some rearangement on the political side, in both Greene County, Beavercreek, and possibly Montgomery County (cause they control where the RTA goes and how that is funded)

I know that Greene County makes no contribution to RTA due to their not paying the sales tax that supports the system, but apparently RTA does operate that line to Wright State, and I notice they even have stops on Colonel Glenn, too. It's not an express directly to WSU campus. So RTA is making an exception for that one corridor or line.

Im wondering if better coordination with CATS, running a CATS shuttle from the RTA stops at WSU, would solve the access problem to the Fairfield Commons mall area.

[Sacheverell]

Speaking of frustrating things about public transit in Dayton: What's the deal with the RTA going 90% of the way to the airport, but not actually serving the airport? I can understand why some public transit systems might not serve the local airport, but when you've got a route that's so close, what's the deal?

One of the appealing things about moving to Dayton for me is the airport--it's cheap to fly out of and I do a lot of budget travelling. But the cab to the airport each way will really up the cost. Very frustrating.

[JefferyT]

That airport question is a good one. It shouldnt be that big a deal to connect to the airport via one of the Vandalia bus lines.

[Crew Chief]

I'm frustrated with the people who don''t so believe that THEY shouldn't pay taxes to subsidize public transit. (Better be careful here, I'm skating on thin political ice...) Yes, I sorta understand the "I've made it so why do I have to support the groups that include those that have no ambition" crowd. And, as a Washington Twp. resident, some of the regionalization ideas give me pause. But I truly would like to see a GREAT mass transit system in the Miami Valley. Perhaps I've spent too much time in Europe, but I'd love to see the ability to get to Dayton airport by bus. I'd also like to see us have easy access to Cincinnati and Columbus, too. But not enough see the value in that. I understand the hesitancy to spend the money and how the (current) underutilization is a good reason not to build it. But I firmly believe that SW Ohio's population density will be just like that of the Eastern Seabord one day. So it would be quite a visionary thing to build it now.

[tgasper]

I heard a great line at UD's River Summit this week in regard to an educated workforce. Paraphrasing, it roughly came out to - if you don't have a college degree, you must go to where the jobs are...if you have a bunch of initials after your name, the jobs will come to you. In other words, if a hospital decides to leave the city center and move to the burbs, the speaker said the doctors will still be able to drive their Porches, and the nurses will drive their Buicks, but how do the orderlies and other lower paid workers get there?

Churches often advocate for their members - just look at the Conservative Party these days!! Lower income minorities often don't have a political advocate, so their churches fill that role. It's pretty common knowledge that Greene County doesn't want bus service to the Fairfield Mall. The Dayton Mall inacted MB16 - meaning you must be 16 or older on weekends, or be there with a parent or guardian. The Greene is located on the county line, so if you can get a bus into Kettering via Montgomery County, you're nearly there, it's just not going to pick up or drop off inside the Greene.

@Nicolaseposter - churches have buses to pick up the members of their congregation that don't have their own transportation, or to transport members on "field trips". And if you think Churches aren't commercial, you probably don't know who Jimmy & Tammy Baker are either!

[tgasper]

uh - let's try "Porsches" instead of "porches". LOL!!!

[Sacheverell]

Crew Chief, I totally agree with you about a great public transit systems. It makes a huge difference for livability for me. I also agree about something to Cincinnati and Columbus. For a while I lived in Seattle, a roughly Cincy-sized city, and worked in Tacoma, a Dayton sized city about 40 miles south. There were constantly transit busses (every 15-30 minutes mid-day, every five minutes or so during rush hour, hourly evenings until midnight). Fare was 2.50, an the busses were full of commuters, shoppers, etc. I got lots of work done on the commute. I'd never dream of living with that commute if I had to drive.

But getting a bus to the airport would hardly require any major changes or significant new expenses to the system; if I'm reading the map correctly, it would simply be a matter of extending the route 17 by about two miles from its current northern terminus. How much could that possibly cost?