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Old 04-18-2010, 03:52 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 13,396,803 times
Reputation: 9702

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I'm with you, Sacheverell. I've trucked in the Sea-Tac area and frankly, was surprised at the amount of traffic for such a "progressive" city with what looks like decent mass transit. I guess the bottom line is that We Americans, regardles of how we support the environment and blah-blah-blah, We STILL want the comfort and privacy of our automobiles.

Not sure why the RTA won't run to the airport; could taxi companies. car renters or some other special-interest group be behind the reason there's no bus service to the airport proper.... I dunno.

TGasper, don't even get me started on what churches should be allowed to do without their tax-exempt status being taken away...
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Downtown Dayton, Ohio
116 posts, read 233,856 times
Reputation: 63
Here is an update:
RTA, mall owners pledge safer, closer stops

And the first comment:
Quote:
I will not not stand by and let a bus stop go in beavercreek. As members of this city we need to stand together and put a stop to unwanted people in our city.
gary
11:14 PM, 4/19/2010
Sure that is only one commenter, but is that the general attitude in Beavercreek?
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:43 AM
 
Location: No, the other Beavercreek.
1,378 posts, read 2,498,573 times
Reputation: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy from Dayton View Post

Sure that is only one commenter, but is that the general attitude in Beavercreek?
I don't know for sure. It's hard to gage that in a community of 40,000+. Though if I had to guess, I'm sure it would be either 50/50 to 40/60 with 60% against the buses. Personally, I'm for the buses running to the malls. I'm also pretty sure many of my friends who are now away at college and universities would be in favor of the buses. If I had to guess which demographic was most opposed to the buses, it would be older folks who have lived in the community for years and probably don't like change in general. They also tend to be rather conservative, and even may be part of tea party debates, etc. Of course, this is a broad, overgeneralization of these people in this situation and mostly based on my guesses and second hand knowledge.

Again, as I've said before, the biggest hurdle to this is if the RTA wants to place a tax on Greene County to fund this extension of service. It's hard enough passing a public school levy here in Beavercreek (well, the state in general really), I can't imagine the firestorm a county or even city wide tax for buses that most Creek residents probably wouldn't use being imposed on them. They surely wouldn't vote it into effect. If you factor in a tax, I'd say the bench sitters on this issue would swing to the anti-bus side of things.
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Downtown Dayton, Ohio
116 posts, read 233,856 times
Reputation: 63
^yeah, the tax thing is the clincher. I don't know if they'd necessarily have to add a tax as RTA already goes to WSU. But then again, it isn't fair for Montgomery County to subsidize bus service to Beavercreek while Greene County pays zero. I know the right wingers will say that we shouldn't subsidize bus service at all but the alternative is to have low-income people with no way to get to work. Public transit is a benefit to the entire community, whether you use it or not. Just like libraries, public parks, etc.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: No, the other Beavercreek.
1,378 posts, read 2,498,573 times
Reputation: 566
^Oh, I totally agree with that last line. If people without cars can't get to work, then you end up just taxing the welfare system even further. And yes, I have heard Beavercreek City Council say that if RTA wanted to begin bus service in Beavercreek, they could not stop them, as long as RTA put in stops, etc.
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Dayton, OH
1,225 posts, read 2,951,589 times
Reputation: 494
I can see a rationale for unsubsidized service to the Fairfield Commons area in that the beneficiaries would not be Greene County residents but low income Daytonians. The line would run to & from Dayton, and not really serve Greene that much (assuming very limited stops).

And there must be some back-story as to how/why RTA runs that line to WSU without a subsidy from Greene Co.

BTW, another comment is calling for a boycott of the mall if they permit shops:

Quote:
Easy solution. Let the Mall owners know that if they push for this, that you will no longer shop there AND FOLLOW THROUGH. Support places with no buses/use online/save your money.
You have to wonder about these people.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Downtown Dayton, Ohio
116 posts, read 233,856 times
Reputation: 63
^ yeah, I saw that comment too and I just shook my head. But then again, I don't put much stock in any DDN comments. The handle used for that comment was something like "mom0f4", but I'd bet it was some unemployed and angry white guy who comments with multiple handles there. I wouldn't be surprised if all those comments are the same five people using different names!
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:37 AM
 
6,351 posts, read 13,396,803 times
Reputation: 9702
Most of you regular posters either know me in RL or at least understand that I drive around the Tri-state all night with waaay too much time to think... Lemme run what I was thinking last night past you all; If government services must generate enough revenue to be self-sufficient, then what's the difference between the fire department and the RTA? If my house catches fire and becomes fully involved; most likely more than a million bucks worth of fire apparatus will show up to put the fire out. Shouldn't I be assessed a fee since I haven't paid enough taxes to support my use of the fire apparatus? (maybe I shouldn't give the politicians any ideas...) but I really can't think of any government resource that isn't subsidized in SOME way. We certainly don't pay the full cost of the roads in any given area by fuel and excise taxes (even if the pols didn't bleed off those revenues for other purposes...)

Whatd'ya all think? I guess I'm trying to say that subsidizing mass transit doesn't bother me.
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:27 PM
 
18 posts, read 40,953 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
there must be some back-story as to how/why RTA runs that line to WSU without a subsidy from Greene Co
I don't really know, but if it seems to me it's a pretty big boon to Montgumery county for its residents to have transit access to the regions only major public university--and a commuter campus at that. Sure, a few Greene county residents may 'free-ride' on the tax subsidy, but a route from downtown Dayton to WSU primarily serves and benefits Montgumery county residents. If I'm a Montgumery county official, I'd certain try to get a subsidy out of Greene county, but if that's not feasible I'd still recognize the benefit here.

As weird as Malls and airports without transit access in an Urban area is, the notion of a major University (and a commuter campus at that!) in a mid-sized urban area without transit access would be considerably weirder.
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Dayton, OH
1,225 posts, read 2,951,589 times
Reputation: 494
^
yes, and for most of its years WSU didnt have transit. That line out there is a relatively new thing.

Quote:
If government services must generate enough revenue to be self-sufficient, then what's the difference between the fire department and the RTA? If my house catches fire and becomes fully involved; most likely more than a million bucks worth of fire apparatus will show up to put the fire out. Shouldn't I be assessed a fee since I haven't paid enough taxes to support my use of the fire apparatus?
In olden days (19th century) I think thats how early volunteer FDs operated, where you subscribed to the service? As you note that might not be feasible in anymore given the cost of equipment and level of training needed...though there are still VFDs around.
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