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Old 05-06-2008, 11:55 AM
 
7,332 posts, read 10,765,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMTAD View Post
The question for me is, "Can I get all the house I want for the same money without using the land lease option"? Here is a very specific example from two actual communities using today's dollars for purchase and inflation for future costs:

House #1 - Land Lease. Base cost $228,000. First year's tax, HOA and ground rent is $5,900. Using 5% annual inflation, over 25 years, tax, HOA and ground rent will cost $297,526. Add that to the cost of the house and the total is $507,526.

House #2 - Fee Simple - but not exactly the same size at House #1, but close enough for comparison. Base cost $ 284,900. First year's HOA and tax is $4,780. Using 5% annual inflation, over 25 years, tax and HOA will cost $225,015. Add that to the cost of the house and the total is $509,915.

In this example, based on two homes that meet my needs, the cost for land lease, over a 25 year period is less than the cost of owning my own. Further, the land lease house is larger and closer to what I want than the non-land lease. The non-land lease house does have slightly better appliances and a whirlpool spa in the community center.

Having said that, I have NOT locked into anything yet. In my next trip down, I am taking a second look at Champions Club in Magnolia. But I can certainly understand why there is a segment of the population that has no problem with land lease and I happen to be one of them - assuming that I have read, can understand and will accept all the fine print. (terms, conditions, etc)

Charley
Charley, I respect the amount of work you've put in to this. But, from a business point of view, and in my opinion, the numbers you've presented are not in line with what I see on a daily basis. You can certainly purchase a very nice property, new construction, for the same or less than that in a land-lease community, and you won't be paying rent for the rest of your life. Some of the fee simple properties have lovely clubhouses, pools, and activities, also. As we all agree, it's an individual choice. I don't have a horse in this race, just presenting what I know, in regard to my experience, that's all.

But, we've strayed from the topic, which is land leased communities, not cost, but repercussions to be aware of.

Delly
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Old 05-06-2008, 12:25 PM
 
19,922 posts, read 9,977,694 times
Reputation: 27341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delly View Post
Charley, I respect the amount of work you've put in to this. But, from a business point of view, and in my opinion, the numbers you've presented are not in line with what I see on a daily basis. You can certainly purchase a very nice property, new construction, for the same or less than that in a land-lease community, and you won't be paying rent for the rest of your life. Some of the fee simple properties have lovely clubhouses, pools, and activities, also. As we all agree, it's an individual choice. I don't have a horse in this race, just presenting what I know, in regard to my experience, that's all.

But, we've strayed from the topic, which is land leased communities, not cost, but repercussions to be aware of.

Delly
I would say that my information was EXACTLY on topic, which is land lease versus owning the land. Since my data was a cost comparison of land lease versus owning the land, I'd say I was right on the money, literally and figuratively.

The numbers are based on actual homes for sale today, with the taxes estimated by the communities and the HOA fees and ground rents quoted in their contracts.

Having seen just about every 55+ community in Delaware, I can safely say that there is NO fee simple community that can give me the size house with the number of rooms and square footage that I seek that favorably compares to the land lease house I like. The comparison I used was the closest match to that "dream house". BUT ...

If you are aware of a 55+ community that is fee simple and that I have not yet seen, I'm very open to seeing it. Just point me in the right direction and I'm there.

Charley
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Old 05-06-2008, 01:31 PM
 
7,332 posts, read 10,765,686 times
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Charley.....go ahead and date the girl! WhaddoI know?
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Old 05-06-2008, 01:43 PM
 
19,922 posts, read 9,977,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delly View Post
Charley.....go ahead and date the girl! WhaddoI know?
Well, being a married type, I will need permission.

(Of course, if I ever asked permission for that, I'd need a much smaller house ... for one )
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Old 05-06-2008, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Sunshine N'Blue Skies
13,320 posts, read 20,112,319 times
Reputation: 11645
Oh your all funny......... ..........I think everyone was glad to be rid of the naysayers and here I stand. ( LOL)..........Its kinda personal with me. If one could only understand.

I was on the phone this morning with a person who is about to loose their home.
Reason........The " lot rent" went up in just about 4 years from 4,000 to just under 8,000. The "promise" of it will go up Xamount of percent, did not hold true.......
If you are a day or two late on your sewer bill..........you get an evict notice also.
I'm talking with an elderly lady, on a fixed income, with no place to go when the
totals don't match what the "big guy" wants. I'm talking with someone who is going without food......to pay this land lease rent. I am sad about this......and it is extremely heartbreaking.
I can only imagine if you were on the phone with someone who was fooled like this, you'd understand where I am coming from. It is a tearful, sad, situation.

No amount of math would convince me that living on someone elses land was good for my beloved home. If so, I would buy where we rent every winter in SC right on the ocean. They have all I love too, the carts to the beach, the indoor pool, club with fun.........but......I'm going across the street to a home on a lot, I own. If my home was to burn down, I will replace it with what I want.........in the land lease place.......you replace with a home that they want, at a price they want you to pay. Some pretty high numbers were requested of one family who lost their home. They did not rebuild.

My heart is sad today because of just what you are all talking about........"land lease"
I know it is popular now, and the builder.....owner of the land.......takes in each month enough to sit on a beach in Hawaii. Great deal for the land owner/builder.

When I get together my land tax funds.......at least I know they are going to pay for the land my home is sitting on. My land.........fair deal.
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Old 05-06-2008, 04:05 PM
 
19,922 posts, read 9,977,694 times
Reputation: 27341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summering View Post
Oh your all funny......... ..........I think everyone was glad to be rid of the naysayers and here I stand. ( LOL)..........Its kinda personal with me. If one could only understand.
Summering: You can be a naysayer because you're a reasonable, rational person with a logical argument. That is always welcome here. I have no problem with anything you or Delly believe as far as the land lease issue. i have come to know you both and respect you and your opinions.

For me, the decision is still an open one and when I finally make my ultimate decision, I will do so being fully informed - or warned - and will live with the consequences of my actions.

Even though we might disagree on an issue, that doesn't mean we cannot respect each others opinions.

If everybody agreed on everything, imagine how boring life would be!

Charley
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Old 05-06-2008, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Sunshine N'Blue Skies
13,320 posts, read 20,112,319 times
Reputation: 11645
Thank you Charlie..........
If I save one person from what others are going through right now, at this very moment....then I "have to" come over here and put in the other sides opinion.
I do understand you too........I see where you are coming from and what you
want, and what feel is good for you.
I have enjoyed reading from time to time everyones opinion.........
I enjoy reading how owners seem to love the Meadows with all their hearts.......and I am so happy for them......and hope things always stay that way. For sure!!
I even enjoy reading how you all get together. Because we do a lot of planning on the PA thread, but........alas.........it doesn't seem to happen. LOL
I wish for everyone the best in their choices.......may life be good.....and your hearts sing....... I just see that your all a great bunch of people.......thats good
And, bet your all glad to have Charlie coming your way soon..........
Good group you all are, just a really great group!!!
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Old 05-06-2008, 05:17 PM
 
16,199 posts, read 10,551,020 times
Reputation: 28844
Summering..............
I too enjoy your posts and think you are a really nice person. Thanks for you r and thanks for sharing such a nice post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summering View Post
Thank you Charlie..........
If I save one person from what others are going through right now, at this very moment....then I "have to" come over here and put in the other sides opinion.
I do understand you too........I see where you are coming from and what you
want, and what feel is good for you.
I have enjoyed reading from time to time everyones opinion.........
I enjoy reading how owners seem to love the Meadows with all their hearts.......and I am so happy for them......and hope things always stay that way. For sure!!
I even enjoy reading how you all get together. Because we do a lot of planning on the PA thread, but........alas.........it doesn't seem to happen. LOL
I wish for everyone the best in their choices.......may life be good.....and your hearts sing....... I just see that your all a great bunch of people.......thats good
And, bet your all glad to have Charlie coming your way soon..........
Good group you all are, just a really great group!!!
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Old 05-06-2008, 05:18 PM
 
7,332 posts, read 10,765,686 times
Reputation: 14857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summering View Post
And, bet your all glad to have Charlie coming your way soon..........
Actually, I'd be happier if Charley was coming to live in a typical Delaware community, vs. a 55+ community on leased land, built by a New York or New Jersey developer, filled with New Yorkers, New Jersians, Pennsylvanians, and other. How in the heck he expects to be a typical Delawarean, living with the same New Yorkers he left, I don't know. Waddaya say, Charley?

I thought of buying a Delaware mould, dumping him in, turning him out, and maybe that would work. But, he's got a mind of his own and would scramble out!
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Old 05-07-2008, 04:47 AM
 
16,199 posts, read 10,551,020 times
Reputation: 28844
going back and forth with the same people is like beating a dead horse. But I do have to make just make one point.
Taxes..........
When you do NOT own the land, no taxes are paid on the land so for us it sort of evens out.
We have a lot rent we pay. No HOA fee. Not yet anyway and most of the residents I have talked to do not want one.
I also figured Pool and gym membership for both bill and I.
It is pretty close to what we pay a year in lot rent.
and
As charley pointed out, Not buying the land is more reasonable so you do not pay as much.
Residents in SM say they rather have the money in the bank instead of in the land.
So to each his own.
Another point. Not all parks and communities are run badly. It depends on who owns the community and what caliber of person or persons they are.
I Know the ones that own SM and they are very fair. I did hear some others are not so.
We have had a few residents sell their home with no problem. In the event that we have to sell, I do NOT anticipate any problems.
Okay.........That was more than one point but who is counting.
I want to make sure I get this all in then put this baby to rest with the same ones beating the same horse or horses.
Summering, Your last post touched me and I do appreciate your input.
Arivarderci................




Quote:
Originally Posted by CMTAD View Post
The question for me is, "Can I get all the house I want for the same money without using the land lease option"? Here is a very specific example from two actual communities using today's dollars for purchase and inflation for future costs:

House #1 - Land Lease. Base cost $228,000. First year's tax, HOA and ground rent is $5,900. Using 5% annual inflation, over 25 years, tax, HOA and ground rent will cost $297,526. Add that to the cost of the house and the total is $507,526.

House #2 - Fee Simple - but not exactly the same size at House #1, but close enough for comparison. Base cost $ 284,900. First year's HOA and tax is $4,780. Using 5% annual inflation, over 25 years, tax and HOA will cost $225,015. Add that to the cost of the house and the total is $509,915.

In this example, based on two homes that meet my needs, the cost for land lease, over a 25 year period is less than the cost of owning my own. Further, the land lease house is larger and closer to what I want than the non-land lease. The non-land lease house does have slightly better appliances and a whirlpool spa in the community center.

Having said that, I have NOT locked into anything yet. In my next trip down, I am taking a second look at Champions Club in Magnolia. But I can certainly understand why there is a segment of the population that has no problem with land lease and I happen to be one of them - assuming that I have read, can understand and will accept all the fine print. (terms, conditions, etc)

Charley
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