Land lease verses owning the land. (Rehoboth Beach, Magnolia: real estate, houses, rent)

[CMTAD]

Here is my thinking on Land Lease. From what I've seen in Delaware, the "monthly fee" for Land Lease homes is in the $400 range and for Fee Simple (Ownership) homes is around $160. They each include the club memberships, the lawn maintenance, the snow removal, etc. The difference in these values is essentially the rent for the ground on which the house is situated.

As far as the increases related to membership, lawn and snow, they will increase in both land lease and fee simple communities. Some communities have a cap. It's 4.5% annually at Nobles Pond. At Southern Meadows, it's the greater of 5% or 1.5 times the CPI (Consumer Price Index) for the first ten years.

I asked at Nobles Pond about what would happen if the land "owner" decided to sell out. The response was the [a] Nobles Pond was the land owner and [b] Why would they sell off the land when it was making money from all the ground rents? It's a good question.

The state of Delaware has a consumer protection for those leasing land. It's Chapter 70 of Title 25 Delaware Code. I have a copy and will be reading it for a while. It's 59 pages and will take me a while to translate from legalese to English, but it is written for the consumer.

As far as the actually costs, my wife and I figured out that over a thirty year period, the cost of fee simple housing and $160 a month, and land lease housing and $400 a month works out to approximately the same amount.

We also noticed that with land lease you do get MORE house! So for me, only I find something in the Delaware Code or in the individual land lease agreement that looks like a problem, I will not eliminate land lease from my considerations.

Charley

[elizamary]

Originally Posted by CMTAD

Here is my thinking on Land Lease. From what I've seen in Delaware, the "monthly fee" for Land Lease homes is in the $400 range and for Fee Simple (Ownership) homes is around $160. They each include the club memberships, the lawn maintenance, the snow removal, etc. The difference in these values is essentially the rent for the ground on which the house is situated.

As far as the increases related to membership, lawn and snow, they will increase in both land lease and fee simple communities. Some communities have a cap. It's 4.5% annually at Nobles Pond. At Southern Meadows, it's the greater of 5% or 1.5 times the CPI (Consumer Price Index) for the first ten years.

I asked at Nobles Pond about what would happen if the land "owner" decided to sell out. The response was the [a] Nobles Pond was the land owner and [b] Why would they sell off the land when it was making money from all the ground rents? It's a good question.

The state of Delaware has a consumer protection for those leasing land. It's Chapter 70 of Title 25 Delaware Code. I have a copy and will be reading it for a while. It's 59 pages and will take me a while to translate from legalese to English, but it is written for the consumer.

As far as the actually costs, my wife and I figured out that over a thirty year period, the cost of fee simple housing and $160 a month, and land lease housing and $400 a month works out to approximately the same amount.

We also noticed that with land lease you do get MORE house! So for me, only I find something in the Delaware Code or in the individual land lease agreement that looks like a problem, I will not eliminate land lease from my considerations.

Charley

Not only that charley, when you own the land, you pay the full taxes. so with that and the fee simple housing it would be about the same.

[peeweeaz]

Charley,

I don't know how you feel about mobile homes, but I found this list by accident. Some good friends of ours live in the canal community (mobile home park) of Swan Keys (on the list below) right off route 54 in Selbyville. It's about 2 miles west of Coastal Highway which is the main road into and out of Rehoboth (north) and Ocean City, MD (south). I recently talked with the husband who told me his community fee is about $550.00 a year (community pool, rec center, etc.) and his property taxes are about the same. My wife and I have stayed in the 24 x 60 home several times. It looks more like a manufactured home than a mobile. Nice deck that backs up to a canal (personal boat pier); and it is fee simple. You might want to check it out. Before you dismiss it as a typical mobile park, believe it or not, some of these homes are over $275K.

Bob




BEAR, DE MHC
FAIRWINDS MOBILE HOME PARK 738 PULASKI HWY BEAR DELAWARE 302-328-8450 302-328-0627
HUNTER MOBILE HOME BROKERAGE 867 PULASKI HWY BEAR DELAWARE 302-322-4868
730 WATERFORD MHC 205 JOAN DR BEAR DELAWARE 302-834-9514
BRIDGEVILLE, DE MOBILE HOME LOTS
WALKERS MILL MOBILE HOME PARK COUNTY RD 594 BRIDGEVILLE DELAWARE 302-337-3125
CAMDEN, DE MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS
5 113-A MHP U.S. 113 - A CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-697-3457
7 A B CARTER DEVELOPMENT STEVENS ST CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-697-8183
12 COOL SPRINGS MHP U.S. 113-A CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-734-8116
20 COUNTRY ACRES ROAD 208-A CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-678-0527
48 GREEN ACRES ST RT 10 CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-697-6742
40 HILL TOP PARK RR 2 BOX 223 CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-697-7557
59 LEISURE HAVEN MOBILE HOME PARK 5829 MUD MILL RD CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-697-6877
57 LONE STAR MHP U.S. 13 CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-697-7522
9 MARKEY MHP U.S. 113 - A CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-697-6289
12 OAKWOOD TERRACE HOWELL ST CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-697-2722
8 PINE NEEDLES MHP 2277 S STATE ST CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-653-2139
12 PROBSTS MHP ROAD 52 CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-678-1356
65 ST JONES LANDING ROAD 363 CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-736-0180
22 VANESSA MHP ROAD 105 CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-697-7311
75 WHISPERING PINES ROAD 30 CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-736-0180
24 WOODS EDGE MHP ROAD 125 CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-697-7522
18 WOODSIDE MHP ROAD 368 CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-678-0527
4 WOODVILLE MANOR WOODVILLE DR CAMDEN DELAWARE 302-697-8183
CHESWOLD, DE MHP'S
37 BLANTONS MHP MAIN STREET CHESWOLD DELAWARE 302-284-4086
15 LAMPLIGHTER MHP U.S. 13 CHESWOLD DELAWARE 302-734-7007
5 SAWYERS PARK U.S. 13 CHESWOLD DELAWARE 302-734-4417
23 STRIMELS MHP MAIN STREET CHESWOLD DELAWARE 302-674-3270
CLAYTON, DE MOBILE HOME COMMUNITIES
115 CLAYTON COURT MOBILE HOME COMMUNITY 1 ANGOLA CIR(DUCK CREEK RD) CLAYTON DELAWARE 302-653-9454
DELAWARE CITY, DE MOBILE HOMES
83 DELAWARE CITY MOBILE HOME PARK RR 9 DELAWARE CITY DELAWARE 302-834-6902
DOVER, DE MANUFACTURED HOME COMMUNITIES
66 BEECHWOOD MHP 1679 S STATE ST DOVER DELAWARE 302-736-0180 302-736-1080
5 CHESTNUT GROVE LINDALE DRIVE DOVER DELAWARE 302-734-3943
6 COLLEGE SETTLEMENT MHP JASON STREET DOVER DELAWARE 302-734-7202
82 DOVER AIR PARK INC 83 GLENN ST DOVER DELAWARE 302-674-2266
240 DOVER EAST ESTATES 1061 S LITTLE CREEK RD DOVER DELAWARE 302-674-3917
6 FORDS MHP FRAZIER ST DOVER DELAWARE 302-653-7768
15 GOOCHS MHP U.S. 113 DOVER DELAWARE 302-653-8812
277 KENTWOODS MOBILE ESTATES 1699 N DUPONT HWY DOVER DELAWARE 302-734-9595
120 KINGS CLIFFE MOBILE PARK 1131 S BAY RD DOVER DELAWARE 302-678-2855
198 LAKELAND MHP 1679 S STATE ST DOVER DELAWARE 302-736-1080
8 LINGOS MHP ROAD 361 DOVER DELAWARE 302-697-6845
6 MAPLE LANE MHP 236 FOX ROAD DOVER DELAWARE 302-734-8185
27 MARANATHA PARK LEBANON ROAD DOVER DELAWARE 302-735-5548
4 MARTIN MHP WILSON AVE DOVER DELAWARE 302-678-0527
50 OAK GROVE S. LITTLE CREEK RD DOVER DELAWARE 302-674-3208
34 OAK GROVE MOBILE PARK 1492 N LITTLE CREEK RD DOVER DELAWARE 302-674-3208
18 PARIS INVESTMENTS N. LITTLE CREEK RD DOVER DELAWARE 302-284-0351
31 PARKVIEW MHP U.S. 13 DOVER DELAWARE 302-778-0743
12 PATTERSONS PARK BEECHWOOD AVE DOVER DELAWARE 302-736-0180
250 PINEWOOD ACRES MOBILE HOME PK A1 PINEWOOD ACRES DOVER DELAWARE 302-678-1004
44 RIVERSIDE MHP 151 ROOSEVELT AVE DOVER DELAWARE 302-734-3166
47 WILLOW TREE TRAILER PARK 5 EVANS TURN DR DOVER DELAWARE 302-674-2591
EDGEMOOR, DE MANUFACTURED HOME LOTS
HOLLY HILL TRAILER PARK 1806 PHILADELPHIA PIKE EDGEMOOR DELAWARE 302-798-6667 302-798-7995
FELTON, DE MH PARKS AND MH ESTATES
10 A & A TRAILER PARK ROAD 156 FELTON DELAWARE
8 BORKS MHP U.S. 13-A FELTON DELAWARE 302-284-9115
157 CANTERBURY CROSSING U.S. 13 FELTON DELAWARE 302-284-0351
90 FLYING DUTCHMAN MOBILE HOME 188 ANGIE DR FELTON DELAWARE 302-284-4700
5 HARRIS MHP ROAD 240 FELTON DELAWARE 302-284-0116
51 J & J MHP ROAD 286 FELTON DELAWARE 302-422-8897
75 LAKE FOREST MOBILE ESTATES 13067 S DUPONT HWY FELTON DELAWARE 302-284-4543
PARADISE ESTATES FELTON DELAWARE 302-335-1649
27 WOODLAND MANOR ROAD 239 FELTON DELAWARE
FREDERICA, DE MH PARK
14 BOWERS MHP BOWERS BEACH RD FREDERICA DELAWARE 302-335-5505
390 HIGH POINT PARK 312 JEAN BRADLEY CIRCLE FREDERICA DELAWARE 866-786-4104 EMAIL
GEORGETOWN, DE MANUFACTURED HOME RENTAL SPACES
COUNTYSEAT GARDENS 1 IVORY ST GEORGETOWN DELAWARE 302-856-7854
80 HOMESTEAD MOBILE HOME PARK RR 1 BOX 252 GEORGETOWN DELAWARE 302-934-9121
HARRINGTON, DE MHP
7 MESSICKS MHP ST RD 14 HARRINGTON DELAWARE 302-398-8882
HARTLEY, DE MOBILE HOME COURTS
105 FOREST GROVE MOBILE HOME PARK 106 ROBIN HOOD LN HARTLY DELAWARE 302-492-8404
51 PEARSONS PARK ST RT 11 HARTLY DELAWARE 302-492-3477
5 TAYLORS MHP ST RT 8 HARTLY DELAWARE 302-736-6072
12 WEST DOVER MHP ROAD 199 HARTLY DELAWARE 302-697-2722
KENTON, DE MH LOTS
8 NOLLS MHP ROAD 97 KENTON DELAWARE 302-335-4007
44 TWIN MAPLES SHAWS CORNER RD KENTON DELAWARE 302-653-7674
LAUREL, DE MANUFACTURED HOME COMMUNITIES
BRIARWOOD MANOR TRUSSUM POND RD LAUREL DELAWARE 302-875-4888
COMMUNITY MANAGEMENT INC 211 N DUAL HWY LAUREL DELAWARE 302-875-9571 302-875-9574
LEWES, DE MH COURTS AND MH ESTATES
ANGOLA BEACH & ESTATES SUBURBAN BLVD LEWES DELAWARE 302-945-5186 302-945-5739
COLONIAL EAST LTD ROUTE 9 LEWES DELAWARE 302-644-4758
DONOVAN-SMITH MOBILE PARK INC 263 COUNTY RD LEWES DELAWARE 302-645-6395
JOHN BURTON'S EDGEWATER TRLR ROUTE 279A LEWES DELAWARE 302-945-1838
80 LOVE CREEK MARINA & MOBILE HM 232 LOVE CREEK PARK LEWES DELAWARE 302-645-6997
TALL PINES MOBILE HOME RESORT 221 TALL PNES LEWES DELAWARE 302-684-0300 302-684-1045
392 WHISPERING PINES 32045 JANICE ROAD LEWES DELAWARE 302-645-2900 302-644-2545 EMAIL
LINCOLN, DE MOBILE HOME SPACES
145 CEDAR VILLAGE MOBILE HOME PARK RT 224 & RT 214 LINCOLN DELAWARE 302-422-9559
MAGNOLIA, DE MANUFACTURED HOME COURTS
46 GRANADA MOBILE HOME COURT B20 NASCAR LN MAGNOLIA DELAWARE 302-335-4966
13 LAWS MHP U.S. 113-A MAGNOLIA DELAWARE 302-492-0346
85 MAGNOLIA MOBILE HOME PARK MAGNOLIA CANTERBURY RD MAGNOLIA DELAWARE 302-335-5588
6 SAN REE MHP ROAD 365 MAGNOLIA DELAWARE 302-697-7191
104 SOUTH WOOD ACRES MOBILE HOME MAGNOLIA CANTERBURY RD MAGNOLIA DELAWARE 302-335-5655 302-335-0600
MARYDEL, DE MANUFACTURED HOMES
6 SARTIN MHP RD 226 MARYDEL DELAWARE 302-322-4282
MIDDLETON, DE MOBILE LOTS
MOUNT PLEASANT MOBILE HOME PARK 4401 SUMMIT BRIDGE RD. MIDDLETOWN DELAWARE 302-378-2660
410-849-3537

MILLFORD, DE MHP'S
8 D & K MHP ROAD 384 MILFORD DELAWARE 302-678-3818
8 FRENCH MHP ROAD 122 MILFORD DELAWARE 302-335-5267
18 LYNCHS MHP U.S. 113 MILFORD DELAWARE 302-422-6307
4 MILLS PARK U.S. 113 MILFORD DELAWARE 302-422-5752
6 TRUITTS MHP FRONT ST MILFORD DELAWARE 302-645-8020
MILLSBORO, DE MOBILE HOME COMMUNITIES
BAY CITY INC LONGNECK RD MILLSBORO DELAWARE 302-945-9472
DESTINATION DEVELOPMENT INC 309 W DUPONT HWY MILLSBORO DELAWARE 302-934-7006 302-934-5299
26 FOREST PARK 500 FOREST PARK MILLSBORO DELAWARE 302-934-8556
200 LEISURE POINT GUINEA CRK MILLSBORO DELAWARE 302-945-2000 302-945-4011
MALONE BAYSIDE MARINA LONG NECK RD MILLSBORO DELAWARE 302-947-0234
375 MARINER'S COVE MOBILE HOME PK 126 PINE DR MILLSBORO DELAWARE 302-945-1544
NEW DIMENSION HOMES LONG NECK RD MILLSBORO DELAWARE 302-945-3820 302-945-4032
200 POT NETS SEASIDE RR 1 BOX 291 MILLSBORO DELAWARE 302-945-9300 302-945-4032
POT-NETS LONG NECK RD MILLSBORO DELAWARE 302-945-3440
300 REHOBOTH SHORES 3 GOOSEPOND RD MILLSBORO DELAWARE 302-945-1500
WHITE HOUSE BEACH INC LONG NECK RD MILLSBORO DELAWARE 302-945-3032
NEWARK, DE MANUFACTURED HOME COURTS
DELAWARE MOBILE HOME PARK 2350 PULASKI HWY NEWARK DELAWARE 302-834-2544 302-834-7447
775 GLASGOW MOBILE HOME PARK 268 CORNELL DR NEWARK DELAWARE 302-834-1633 302-834-1687
315 MAPLE SQUARE MANAGEMENT CORP 3 MAPLE DR NEWARK DELAWARE 302-368-0934
OCEAN VIEW, DE MOBILE HOME VILLAGE
25 BAYSHORE INC CAMP SITE & PARK RD 358 OCEAN VIEW DELAWARE 302-539-7200
REHOBOTH, DE LAND/LEASE COMMUNITIES
300 ASPEN MEADOWS MOBILE HOME PARK 83 BIG BURN LN REHOBOTH BEACH DELAWARE 302-227-6161 302-645-0767
300 CAMELOT MEADOWS 303 PALACE LN REHOBOTH BEACH DELAWARE 302-227-4266
COLONIAL EAST 4554 HIGHWAY ONE REHOBOTH BEACH DELAWARE 302-645-2040 302-645-0232
COLONIAL EAST MOBILE HOME ESTS REHOBOTH HWY REHOBOTH BEACH DELAWARE 302-645-2030
525 REHOBOTH BAY MANUFACTURED HOME 163 REHOBOTH BAY REHOBOTH BEACH DELAWARE 302-227-3745
SEA AIR VILLAGE 19837 SEA AIR AVENUE REHOBOTH BEACH DELAWARE 866-786-7319 EMAIL
146 SILVER VIEW FARM INC 525 COUNTRY CLUB RD REHOBOTH BEACH DELAWARE 302-227-3932
360 WEST BAY PARK ARROWHEAD RD REHOBOTH BEACH DELAWARE 302-945-1010 302-945-7577
SEAFORD, DE MH COMMUNITIES
MOBILE GARDENS TRAILER PARK 901 BRICKYARD RD SEAFORD DELAWARE 302-629-6169
PINE RIDGE TRAILER PARK 1220 S DUAL HWY SEAFORD DELAWARE 302-629-2804
SUSSEX MANOR MOBILE HOME PARK 1900 LAUREL HWY SEAFORD DELAWARE 302-629-4851
197 VILLAGE OF COOL BRANCH RT 20 SEAFORD DELAWARE 302-629-4375
SELBYVILLE, DE MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS
LIGHTHOUSE TRAILER PARK RR 3 SELBYVILLE DELAWARE 302-539-4115
300 SHADY PARK MOBILE HOMES ROUTE 54 SELBYVILLE DELAWARE 302-436-8441
SUMMER-TIME TRAILER PARK RR 1 SELBYVILLE DELAWARE 302-539-1887
SWAN KEYS ROUTE 54 SELBYVILLE DELAWARE 302-436-5111
60 TINGLE ACRES MOBILE HOME PARK 209 HOOSIER ST EXT SELBYVILLE DELAWARE 302-436-5539
SMYRNA, DE MHC'S
6 DENNISONS MHP DUCK CREEK PKWY SMYRNA DELAWARE
50 HEDGEROW HOLLOW U.S. 13 SMYRNA DELAWARE 302-659-1609
277 HOLLY HILL ESTATES 271 BERRY DR SMYRNA DELAWARE 302-653-7503
160 RIDGEWOOD MANOR 3023 S DUPONT HWY SMYRNA DELAWARE 302-653-2534
6 SIBITZKY MHP CLAYTON BLVD SMYRNA DELAWARE 302-653-9655
23 WOODLAND BEACH PARK WOODLAND BEACH RD SMYRNA DELAWARE 302-328-4497
TOWNSEND, DE MOBILE HOME COMMUNITY
FREDERICK LODGE TRAILER PARK 6TH ST & MAIN DR TOWNSEND DELAWARE 302-653-9973
VIOLA, DE MH PARK
22 COUNTRYSIDE MHP ROAD 239 VIOLA DELAWARE 302-284-3975
10 VIOLA WOODS 3 VIOLA WOODS RD VIOLA DELAWARE 302-284-8034
WILMINGTON, DE MANUFACTURED HOMES
INVESTORS REALTY INC 1207 DELAWARE AVE WILMINGTON DELAWARE 302-656-5000 302-656-2937
MILLCREEK MOBILE HOME CO 5600 OLD CAPITOL TRL WILMINGTON DELAWARE 302-998-3045 302-633-6662
326 WINTERSET FARMS INC 2801 EBRIGHT RD WILMINGTON DELAWARE 302-475-3010

[CMTAD]

Hi Bob,

I'm not dismissing manufactured homes at all. Thanks for the information. I'll give it a good look.

Charley

P.S. Eliza - you're right about adding in the taxes in my calculations. I did do that ... I just forgot to say it.

[elizamary]

Maybe up by the canal the mobiles are really nice but down in these parts most of the ones I saw are crappy.
Not to say there are not nice ones, I'm sure there are.

Now, in Lewes sussex county......Colonial East is a fairly nice one. This is an all age community with bayside homes. Sussex west and east are part of colonial east right off of Route 1. some of the homes are nice and some are crap.
The traffic in the summer is horrendous. WE liked Sussex West or East but they had no pool. They said if we bought, we could use the pool at colonial East.
That is across the highway and would take at least 20 mins to get there with all the traffic.
They home was very nice and the lot fee was not bad but the traffic would be a killer.

If anyone is interested, you can call these parks and request brochures then begin to narrrow down your seach then come and visit.

[MPBsr]

Here's something that scared the hell out of me with land lease.

2-3 years ago we found what we thought was a great home and a better location (view) overlooking the Indian River. It was in the Pots Net area of DE and while the house was really a knockdown (which didn't scare us) the land lease did. At that time it was $13,000 a year. I found out recently that it's up to $17,000 and the house is still for sale.

When we visited Noble's Pond last year while the homes were very impressive and big, the land lease was $400 a month which didn't include snow off your property. The agent "thought" the annual increase could go up 4.5% a month.

That alone for us was to much uncertainty.

[rossc]

I saw a mobile barely worthy of being torn down in Ocean City in a water front community but not on the water. Asking price is $275,000. It's on a tiny patch of owned land.

[elizamary]

Stay Away From Pot Nets...........

[MPBsr]

Originally Posted by elizamary

Stay Away From Pot Nets...........

Don't worry, we are.

Between the land lease being very high and the very old single wides in the area, it's not a place for us.

Unfort, one day the family will sell and force everyone out of the Pots Net.

[CMTAD]

We are too. Pots-nets was the first community we became aware of in Delaware, and then we heard something about a big-time problem with land lease (and don't remember what it was) and dismissed Pots-nets AND Delaware, and started looking elsewhere. Delaware came back into our thinking on the recommendation of someone with whom I worked and I'm glad it did!

Charley